Are we are under the commands of the first 5 books

[good samaritan]

I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant. I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer. Just wanted to start of this thread with one.

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.

[Amanah]

The ark of the covenant holds the 10 commandments written in stone by the finger of God Deuteronomy 10:1-5.

Those first 10 are the Old Covenant written in stone and also the new covenant written on the fleshly tablets of the heart.

Deuteronomy 4:13
13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments,and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.



Statutes and Ordinances (Deuteronomy 4:44-28:68)

The rest of the commandments are statutes and ordinances some of which are either fulfilled in Christ (sacrificial law) or have spiritual application for us today.

Deuteronomy 22:5 for example is a part of the statutes and ordinances which have spiritual application for us today.

[good samaritan]

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Moses was a type of Christ:

Moses delivered Israel from Egypt, Jesus delivered man from sin.

Moses gave Israel the law presumably on Pentecost written on stone, Jesus gave us the Holy Ghost on Pentecost written upon our hearts.

The ten commandments where written on stone but not one scripture says the ten commandments where written in our hearts. It says I will write my laws on their hearts, that doesn't say exclusively the ten commandments. All the first five books of our Bible are regarded as the law, and it is all required commands. It is adding to the scripture to say that the ten alone are somehow carried over to be written upon our heart.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I personally feel this is the law written in our hearts. It is the love of God and not a literal list of does and don'ts.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant. I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer. Just wanted to start of this thread with one.

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.

Is your conscience bugging you or something?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is your conscience bugging you or something?

Sometimes, but I enjoy the discussion. Iron sharpeneth iron right?

[Amanah]

Following the 10 commandments is the love of God. They teach us how God wants us to love him and love each other.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Following the 10 commandments is the love of God. They teach us how God wants us to love him and love each other.

Only the ten demonstrate the love of God? I would think we would obey them all to love Him.

[Amanah]

Yes, let's obey them all. Some literally, some with spiritual application.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant.

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
(Rom 2:13-15)

I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:5-8)

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.

On the one hand, you often speak as if the old covenant was bondage and hard labour, and Christ came to give us liberty and freedom. But then on the other hand you say things like this, about how you think the new covenant "requires MORE out of us". So which one is it? And why do you seem to think in terms of God as being some kind of onerous taskmaster? Everything boils down to "do I HAVE to do such and thus?" with a lot of people, even though that was NEVER God's intent when He made man. I would have supposed that someone who loved God would be thinking more in terms of "how can I best model the will and character of God in my life?" instead of "what do I REALLY have to do? How much of God's instruction can I safely ignore and still make heaven my home?"

You speak of this particular instruction as being some kind of "hard to understand" thing. And it is as if there is some kind of problem with the command itself. Either it is too hard, or too difficult, or does not require enough, or is too lax. But according to the apostle Paul, the problem isn't with the law of God, it is with YOU:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:3)

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(Gal 3:21)

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(Rom 7:7-14)

The problem isn't with the law of God, or His commands, or His instructions. The problem is MAN. The problem is man is SINFUL, selfish, ungodly, and walks after the flesh. And therefore refuses to be subject to the law of God. God's law is spiritual, as we just read, but the carnal or natural man rejects the spiritual things of God (like His law):

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
(Joh 8:43)

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14)

What is there that is so confusing about the particular command of God that is being asked about?

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

A man has a servant (male or female). If he strikes him (or her) with a rod and kills the servant, the man is guilty of murder. If however the servant is only shook up for a day or two, and thus unable to work, the owner of the servant is not liable to a fine or punishment, because the loss of the servant's work is itself the punishment. That is, the man doesn't have the services of his bondslave during their rest and recuperation period, which is itself counted as a loss to the owner.

Nobody in the West has such servants (at least not legally). So the actual execution of the law is not an issue. There are no legal slaves, so this statute doesn't enter the discussion.

Obviously though we can see a principle here, namely that even slave owners are not above the law of equity. Just because a person may be a slave, or a master, doesn't mean that each of them aren't made in the image of God, and therefore the laws regarding justice, homicide, etc apply to all. The lowest man is still a MAN with rights.

And so we see that God's holy law surpasses the nonsense that passes for "law" invented by men. And we also see the indescribable insanity of the antinomian, who insists that Christ abolished this law and therefore would have NO LAW PROTECTING SERVANTS FROM ABUSE.

But then again, the antinomian also thinks only in terms of themself. They do not consider that perhaps God's law is meant for SOCIETY, not just individuals. Why? Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.

The two Greatest Commandments are Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
(Deu 6:5)

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(Lev 19:18)

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:35-40)

All the revealed Word of God, all of God's instruction to us, what theonomists call "God's Law", is based upon those two commandments. All of God's moral demands upon mankind are expressions in various circumstances of those two commands, to love God supremely and your neighbour as yourself.

This rules out selfishness. Sin is at its core selfishness, it is a refusal to love God supremely and to love one's neighbour as oneself. God's entire moral law can be summed up as "Love God with all you've got and love your neighbour as yourself." Since sin is transgression of the law, it necessarily follows that sin is selfishness and self centeredness. It is to love oneself above one's neighbour and above God. It is manifested by seeking one's own interests at the expense of God and others.

Many people think that because "love" is the greatest commandment, and that because "love is the fulfilling of the law", they may "love" God and others while dispensing with God's commandments. But this of course is nonsense. And in fact they themselves don't believe it. They themselves prove the lie, because they readily admit that for example loving your neighbour implies not stealing their property, or murdering them, or coveting their stuff. So they accept that the various commands of God are simply the ways to fulfill the command to love God and your neighbour, depending on the context and situation. Or to put it another way, the various commandments of God are simply expressions of HOW to love God and your neighbour in various situations and relations.

But as soon as one of those commandments interferes with their own personal wants and supposed interests, all of a sudden they find every possible way to NOT obey the command. As long as loving God and their neighbour is fulfilled in a way suitable to their own perceived self interests, all is well. But when the command requires them to deny themselves and take up their cross as it were, lo and behold "loving God and your neighbour" becomes some kind of SUBSTITUTE for the Divine instruction! How strange that loving God and one's neighbour is to be carried out by refusing to love God and one's neighbour in the context and in the manner deemed expedient by God!

So the antinomian exclaims "Oh! But I DO obey God! See here and here and there and there!" But do they really? No, they simply happen to obey God when it is convenient and when God's will just happens to align with their own. But as soon as God's will and their own depart, who do they follow? Their own will. So any obedience on their part is simply a matter of "coincidence". Much like the "blood of Jezreel" which led to the downfall of the House of Israel:

And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:4)

Jezreel ws the location where Jehu had Jezebel tossed to her death and where the entire lineage of Ahab was wiped out, all in obedience to the words of the prophet Elijah. And immediately after overthrowing the Ahab dynasty, Jehu executed all the priests and prophets of Baal. In return, God promised Jehu the throne of Israel and that his sons would reign up to the fourth generation:

And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel.
(2Ki 10:30)

So why would God be interested in avenging the blood of Jezreel, and causing not only the dynasty of Jehu to cease but the entire kingdom as well? Very simply, because Jehu carried out this "holy war" for his own interests:

Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel, and that were in Dan. And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin.
(2Ki 10:28-31)

Jehu's "zeal for Jehovah" was simply a zeal for his own advancement to the throne. God's will and Jehu's aligned in this respect. But in respect of the golden calves and the fake Jehovahism set up by Jereboam Jehu had no intention of dispensing with. THAT part of God's will was at cross purposes to Jehu's, so Jehu (being selfish even in his "zeal" for God) followed his own will rather than God's.

Note: what exactly was the sin of Jereboam which was the downfall of the House of Israel?

And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
(1Ki 12:26-33)

Jereboam created a substitute counterfeit for of Jehovahism. He didn't tell the people to worship Baal, at least not directly. Instead, he made some idols and said THAT was Jehovah who brought Israel out of Egypt. He abandoned the Divinely ordained Feast of Tabernacles and substituted in its place some invented manmade feast in the eighth month. All as part of the new worship of the elohim that brought Israel out of Egypt. He created a fake counterfeit version of the true religion. Sound familiar?