Sabbath and bible feasts

[good samaritan]

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: [5] For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Acts 10:12-16
12......Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13......And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14......But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15......And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16......This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

The word of God says all creatures are good. This is covered by the words of Christ (the word of God). We are not under the law (Ten Commandments +), but we follow the Spirit (righteousness of the law,Not the letter of it). Essentially your teaching that we are sinners for eating Barbecue. You ought to take this one up on one of EB’s bacon threads.

Btw, I really feel like I would gladly quit eating pork if that really mattered to God. Something I do think that we all could be in sin for is not treating our body as the temple of God in regards to nutrition and exercise. If we partake of things knowing they are harmful to our bodies it is sin. There is much controversy over what is health food, but I think it is really pretty obvious. Get away from the laboratory food and eat whole natural foods in moderation. Throw in some regular fasting.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: [5] For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Acts 10:12-16
12......Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13......And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14......But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15......And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16......This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

The word of God says all creatures are good. This is covered by the words of Christ (the word of God). We are not under the law (Ten Commandments +), but we follow the Spirit (righteousness of the law,Not the letter of it). Essentially your teaching that we are sinners for eating Barbecue. You ought to take this one up on one of EB’s bacon threads.

Btw, I really feel like I would gladly quit eating pork if that really mattered to God. Something I do think that we all could be in sin for is not treating our body as the temple of God in regards to nutrition and exercise. If we partake of things knowing they are harmful to our bodies it is sin. There is much controversy over what is health food, but I think it is really pretty obvious. Get away from the laboratory food and eat whole natural foods in moderation. Throw in some regular fasting.

Paul instructed to obey one of the commandments of the Law:

Eph 6:1-3 NKJV - (1) Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (2) "Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: (3) "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth."

According to James, a Christian can still be found transgressor of the law. He uses the law to rebuke. See this passage in its context:

Jas 2:5-11 NKJV - (5) Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? (6) But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? (7) Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called? (8) If you really fulfill [the] royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; (9) but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. (10) For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all. (11) For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Paul exhorts the Romans with the law of Moses:

Rom 13:8-10 NKJV - (8) Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. (9) For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if [there is] any other commandment, are [all] summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (10) Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.

Jesus, a man full of the Spirit, the Teacher you are supposed to follow, kept it in his heart, and used it to fight temptation:

Mat 4:4, 7, 10 NKJV - (4) But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' " ... (7) Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.' " ... (10) Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "

How do you reconcile your reasoning that because Jesus said that is a proof we are not "under the law" and the passage I posted above?

Do you really understand what "under the Law" means?


This is what David Bernard, UPCI Superintendent believes:

...we have been freed from the law of the Old Testament in at least four specific ways: we are free from (1) the penalty of the law, (2) the attempt to fulfill the law by human effort alone, (3) the destructive power of the law that arises from man’s abuse of it, and (4) the ceremonial law.
First, we are freed from the penalty and condemnation of the law. The law condemned us to death, but when we apply Christ’s atonement to our lives we are pardoned: “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Galatians 3:13). The law has no more power to condemn us when we are in Christ.
Second, we are freed from the attempt to fulfill the law through human effort alone. Of course, God never meant for the law to bring righteousness in itself; salvation has never been by works, but always by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), both before and during the law (Romans 4:1-12). God gave the law to define sin, to prove man’s utter sinfulness, to prove man’s need of God’s grace, and to point man to Christ (Romans 3:20; 5:20; 7:7; Galatians 3:24). (... Practical Holiness: A Second Look, Chapter 4, Christian Liberty)

I personally don't agree 100% with that reasoning. The extrabiblical categorization theologians do between "ceremonial" and "moral" has been beyond abused. For example, in the name of "it is not a moral law", modern Christians tattoo themselves. The point (3) in that quote, IIRC, refers to the judgment (e.g. stoning) people were supposed to do when someone sinned. I don't agree with his theology that people didn't have the assistance of the Spirit to overcome sin in the OT either, but that's a topic for another thread.

Anyway, Bernard does not follow your reasoning that "the commandments must be in the NT as well to keep it, otherwise, it is not applicable". That's not the UPCI official stand either.

This is a better theology: we are still subject to keep the instruction of the law unless explicitly discontinued in the New Testament by the those that knew the right theology: Jesus and the apostles.

[Amanah]

Coksiw:
"This is a better theology: we are still subject to keep the instruction of the law unless explicitly discontinued in the New Testament by the those that knew the right theology: Jesus and the apostles."

Great point, thank you.

[mfblume]

Galatians 1-3 speak of the LAW alone being an issue of problems with the Galatian believers. Not paganism. And that means Gal 4 has Paul specifically discontinuing keeping of holy time periods, along with Gal 2:16-17, but not because it would be sinful.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Paul instructed to obey one of the commandments of the Law:
[INDENT]Eph 6:1-3 NKJV - (1) Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (2) "Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: (3) "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.

I never said the righteousness of the law doesn't carry over into the New covenant. In this verse you are citing, Paul is merely citing the law to establish that it wasn't a new command, but the command was initially in the law of Moses. what about the verses before an after the one you posted.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath:but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Paul was teaching the Ephesians to submit to one another in many of the different relationships we have with one another in the body. Husbands-wives, wives-husbands, Servants-master, masters - servants, fathers - sons, sons - fathers. Coincidently the father - son command carried over in its application.

This in no way has anything to do with feast days, Sabbaths, dietary laws, etc.. If you are advocating that we are still under Mosaic law because Paul makes a reference from the Law. Look what he has already told the Ephesians in the same letter:

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Give me one example in the entire New Testament where anyone is being instructed to not forget to observe the sabbath, not to eat certain foods, or to keep a jewish feast day? The only thing that Paul is commanding us to carry over from the law is the righteous of the law (that is the moral issues of serving God and one another). It has nothing to do with keeping Jewish days.

Btw if the law if is still in full operation, can we still participate in polygamy, because their is no prohibitions of it in the law. The New Covenant is far greater than the Old Covenant laws.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Give me one example in the entire New Testament where anyone is being instructed to not forget to observe the sabbath, not to eat certain foods, or to keep a jewish feast day?

Like a revolving cycle of musical chairs, we are back to this AS IF it was never addressed.

Give me one example in the entire New Testament where anyone is being instructed not to cross-dress or practice bestiality.

(And here comes the shoe horning, already addressed as well. Then it will be something else, then sooner or later "show me one example in the NT where anyone is commanded..."

Round and round it goes.

[good samaritan]

According to James, a Christian can still be found transgressor of the law. He uses the law to rebuke. See this passage in its context:

Jas 2:5-11 NKJV - (5) Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? (6) But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? (7) Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called? (8) If you really fulfill [the] royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; (9) but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. (10) For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all. (11) For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Context??? You forgot to actually include the context. let me add that:

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

Again we are not dealing with holy sacrements from the law, but we are dealing with how we are to treat people (moral issues). James is instructing in his letter to not have respect of persons, but to treat everyone with equality. Is that command even directly in the law of Moses? Let's look at the next verses:

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

In other words we will be judged with the same measure that we judge others. If you want to hold people over the fire with endless commands and ordinances, well guess where that will leave you. We should be teaching people the things that Jesus taught (faith in his eternal sacrifice and love one another as he loved), not to keep feasts, sabbath days, dietary laws. If those laws where still required on the gentile church, why would we not have one reference of the apostles teaching these things, because we know that they would not know how otherwise? Evidently they held no priority if they where still obligations. Why not we believe what the apostles actually taught about the Sabbath.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

[good samaritan]

Paul exhorts the Romans with the law of Moses:
Rom 13:8-10 NKJV - (8) Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. (9) For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if [there is] any other commandment, are [all] summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (10) Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.

The law was the schoolmaster. No one is saying the law is some evil thing that we should abhor. We can learn from the Old Testament scripture, because it leads us to Christ. We no longer serve laws that where designed as shadows to lead us to Christ and his promises to the Church. We are serving in how they are fulfilled and not how they used to be applied. So yes we still are to love one another and it is forever gonna be required by God. Interesting thing is that these laws of love are good for people who have never even heard of God even though they have never received them by a letter. God will hold all people accountable for this law even infidels throughout history who have never heard of Jesus or Moses teaching.

[good samaritan]

Mat 4:4, 7, 10 NKJV - (4) But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' " ... (7) Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.' " ... (10) Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "

How do you reconcile your reasoning that because Jesus said that is a proof we are not "under the law" and the passage I posted above?

Easily, Jesus was a Jew under the law. Jesus observed all the commands of the Old Testament so perfectly that he could fulfill them for you and I. If he hadn't we would be spinning our wheels in this discussion, because we have not rights outside of Jesus Christ to the kingdom of God.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I never said the righteousness of the law doesn't carry over into the New covenant. In this verse you are citing, Paul is merely citing the law to establish that it wasn't a new command, but the command was initially in the law of Moses. what about the verses before an after the one you posted.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath:but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Paul was teaching the Ephesians to submit to one another in many of the different relationships we have with one another in the body. Husbands-wives, wives-husbands, Servants-master, masters - servants, fathers - sons, sons - fathers. Coincidently the father - son command carried over in its application.

This in no way has anything to do with feast days, Sabbaths, dietary laws, etc.. If you are advocating that we are still under Mosaic law because Paul makes a reference from the Law. Look what he has already told the Ephesians in the same letter:

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Give me one example in the entire New Testament where anyone is being instructed to not forget to observe the sabbath, not to eat certain foods, or to keep a jewish feast day? The only thing that Paul is commanding us to carry over from the law is the righteous of the law (that is the moral issues of serving God and one another). It has nothing to do with keeping Jewish days.

Btw if the law if is still in full operation, can we still participate in polygamy, because their is no prohibitions of it in the law. The New Covenant is far greater than the Old Covenant laws.

Where does the NT prohibit polygamy? If you can't find a "thou shalt not" in the NT, what are you going to do when someone asks you if polygamy is good or bad? I can teach against polygamy from the OT.

BTW, I'm not defending Sabbath-keeping, just presenting the correct place All Scripture should have in our lives and in our preaching.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Context??? You forgot to actually include the context. let me add that:

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

Again we are not dealing with holy sacrements from the law, but we are dealing with how we are to treat people (moral issues). James is instructing in his letter to not have respect of persons, but to treat everyone with equality. Is that command even directly in the law of Moses? Let's look at the next verses:

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

In other words we will be judged with the same measure that we judge others. If you want to hold people over the fire with endless commands and ordinances, well guess where that will leave you. We should be teaching people the things that Jesus taught (faith in his eternal sacrifice and love one another as he loved), not to keep feasts, sabbath days, dietary laws. If those laws where still required on the gentile church, why would we not have one reference of the apostles teaching these things, because we know that they would not know how otherwise? Evidently they held no priority if they where still obligations. Why not we believe what the apostles actually taught about the Sabbath.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Yeah, James is doing this:

2Ti 3:16 NKJV - (16) All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The law was the schoolmaster. No one is saying the law is some evil thing that we should abhor. We can learn from the Old Testament scripture, because it leads us to Christ. We no longer serve laws that where designed as shadows to lead us to Christ and his promises to the Church. We are serving in how they are fulfilled and not how they used to be applied. So yes we still are to love one another and it is forever gonna be required by God. Interesting thing is that these laws of love are good for people who have never even heard of God even though they have never received them by a letter. God will hold all people accountable for this law even infidels throughout history who have never heard of Jesus or Moses teaching.

So you don't use the law of Moses as the Apostles did to teach even righteousness and holiness?

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Easily, Jesus was a Jew under the law. Jesus observed all the commands of the Old Testament so perfectly that he could fulfill them for you and I. If he hadn't we would be spinning our wheels in this discussion, because we have not rights outside of Jesus Christ to the kingdom of God.

That reasoning is pretty messed up, Good Samaritan, when you come to the conclusion that you don't have to keep the commandments of God in your heart and in your mouth, as our Lord Jesus Christ did.