Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Marriage Matters
Facebook

Notices

Marriage Matters For discussion of Marital issues


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #9  
Old 06-30-2022, 03:01 AM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,785
Re: Divorce and remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
Esaias, I don’t disagree with you, but have not caught up to you on all of your interpretation.

How do you understand this:

Romans 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Would not your understanding mean that the “receiving of them” as already taken place. If the gentiles and Israel are the same. It seems to me, Paul is making a distinction between Israel and the gentiles.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
(Rom 11:5-11)
Paul is continuing the discussion from chapter 10 which is contrasting the old covenant Judeans with the new covenant believers (Christians). In chapter 11 he points out that many in Israel had failed to obtain what they were looking for (righteousness and maturity in relationship with God) but there were some who had, namely, the election, those called and chosen and who confirmed their election by believing in Christ. He then quotes the Psalm which talks about this fall or stumbling of many in Israel (which was a stumbling over the identity of the Christ due to their unbelief).

In these passages the term Israel is being used to refer those Israelites still in the old covenant with God (ie Judeans or "Jews"). Notice he talks about Israel not obtaining that which he seeketh. This can only refer to the Judeans because the northern House of Israel never did seek after God, it was one apostasy after another from their beginning as a separate nation under Jereboam until their divorce by God and carrying away by Assyria.

So he points out at Israel's rejection of Christ (ie Judean unbelief) has resulted in the Good News going out to the nations (specifically the divorced House of Israel, and by extension to all other nations and families on earth). Thus the fall of the (unbelieving Judeans) has resulted in the salvation of the nations. Then he says this:
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
(Rom 11:12)
In other words, if the Judean fall from grace has resulted in such benefit and blessing to the world and the nations, how much more would a Judean return to God under the new covenant be? How much more a blessing to the world would that be? A rhetorical question, obviously. It was meant to counteract a feeling among the gentile Christians that God had completely abandoned the Judeans altogether, that they had fallen without any possibility of reconciliation. For example:
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
(Rom 11:17-24)
Paul concludes with this:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
(Rom 11:25-32)
All Israel was to be saved. Not that every single Israelite was to be saved, obviously, because only a remnant according to election ever did or will be saved. But rather, that the national (actually multi-national) group descended from Abraham is predestined to be in the new covenant with God through Jesus Christ. This means "the fullness of the Gentiles/nations" are to come in. Israel was to become a fullness (pleroma) or "multitude" of nations, and they were (as per Hosea ch 1) to be reconciled to God. Them, along with the elect remnant of the Judeans, constitute "all Israel". All Israel being saved is fulfilled by the fullness of the nations coming in (the reconciliation of the divorced House of Israel) to the One Body united with believing Judeans (again, as Hosea prophesied and as Paul affirmed was happening already in his day in Romans 9).

Now Paul talking about "the receiving of them" is in the context of Gentile Christians not boasting against Judeans (thinking the Judeans were utterly and irreparably cut off from God with no hope of reconciliation). I don't think he was talking about some specific (future) time in which there would be some kind of "receiving of the Judeans", but rather was talking about how awesome it is when any Judean becomes a believer in Jesus, that such was entirely possible, and that such ought to be considered a worthy goal to work towards and to pray for.


Quote:
I think the confusion is that scripture mention Israel as a physical nation of people and also a spiritual kingdom of people, but they are not always one and the same.
Well, here are the meanings and uses of the term "Israel":
  1. A title given to Jacob adopted as a personal name
  2. The name of Jacob's descendants
  3. The name of the ten-tribe northern Kingdom that separated from Judah during the civil war under Rehoboam
  4. The legal name of all who were under the Sinaitic Covenant
  5. The legal name of those in the New Covenant

The reason for the last two is because "Israel" is the basic legal name for God's covenanted people. Those in Israel who rejected Jesus lost their citizenship as far as God was concerned, just as those in Israel who rejected God and the Sinaitic Covenant lost their citizenship (see Hosea, etc).

Non Israelites who adhere to the Covenant are granted citizenship status. This was true under the Sinaitic Covenant, and remains true under the New Covenant.

The idea that there is a "spiritual Israel" that "has nothing to do with the decendants of Jacob" is completely unbiblical, and was developed by the Catholic Church in order to promote their "universalism" (catholicity, catholic means "universal") as they were creating an empire based on religion to carry on what the Roman Empire had started - an Empire based on civic status rather than national origin or membership.

The Israel of God is the same Israel of old, just under the new covenant instead of the old covenant. Members of all nations who came under the old covenant were granted a citizenship status in Israel, and the same is true today.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf


Last edited by Esaias; 06-30-2022 at 03:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Divorce and Remarriage Sister Alvear Fellowship Hall 402 08-06-2018 08:06 PM
Divorce and Remarriage? Esaias Fellowship Hall 35 06-28-2017 02:31 PM
divorce and remarriage? newlifeprophet Deep Waters 15 06-20-2012 05:25 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.