Are we are under the commands of the first 5 books

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There is no possible way for it to not have impact. Does your childhood not effect your adult life? God doesnt erase our memories when he calls, instead he uses our life experiences. Some things we must be delivered from and somethings become a strength to us.

Childhood experiences do not dictate theology. They may shape us, and we can't deny our memories, such as we have of them, but Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, not merely a memoir of his life. His theology therefore, is God-ordained, God-derived, and not from whatever his past life as a Jew amounted to. Hence why he called that past life "dung". He threw it ALL AWAY so that he might attain to the excellency of the knowledge of the Lord and Savior, Jesus.

You keep saying the word Torah, but my English bible doesnt use the term Torah. Instead, Paul references it as simply the law.

The Greek term commonly translated as "law" is nomos, and in context, refers to the Torah, that is, the Law of Moses, or the Pentateuch. So, when John writes "sin is the transgression of the law", he is referring to the Torah/Law of Moses/Pentateuch.

When Paul writes in Hebrews, and quotes two different times from the Prophet Jeremiah, "I will write my laws on their heart", he is referring to the Torah/Law of Moses/Pentateuch. How do we know? Because the Hebrew word for Law in Jeremiah 31:33 is torah.

These facts are fundamental to the discussion we are having, and yet, you don't seem to know them, questioning my use of "Torah"? That level of ignorance speaks volumes.

I am not debating there is no principle or precedent contained in the law.

But you are, even when you say you are not. You have repeatedly cited certain commands of the law as good principles to follow. But they are not mere principles. They are LAWS. They are COMMANDS. It really doesn't help your case to call them principles, or etc.

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The law leads us to Christ. The moral teachings still have applications, but not according to the letter. Those laws have been fulfilled and to say otherwise is to make the cross in vain.

First, I don't think you know what the phrase "letter of the law" means.

Second, again, you can't have it both ways. If a believer in Christ, by obeying any law of the Torah, makes the cross in vain, then there are not legitimate applications in the life of the New Covenant believer, without risk to delegitimatizing the cross.

Remember, he that keepeth not the whole law is guilty of all? You've insisted and persisted in this point multiple times, now. So, there is no point in keeping only a couple laws, here and there, because you think there is some benefit to the believer, while neglecting the rest. Why you cannot see the logical outcome of your own argument is strange at best, patently blind at worst.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Who here has ever argued that one's righteousness comes by the law? No one has denounced faithful obedience to God's Christ and the Gospel as the means whereby one is saved and made right with the Father.

If that's what you think the argument has been this whole time, no wonder you can't see what Esaias, Amanah, and I, have been saying.

Yes, he quotes often from the OT as a reference to establish NT doctrine. He does not insist the NT church go back and learn the law in order to know how to be Christian. The law was righteous, yet it was just shadow of what was to come (Jesus).

He doesn't merely quote from the OT as a reference. He quotes from the OT to establish proper ECCLESIASTICAL PRAXIS upon all believers everywhere for all time. Clearly his quotations of the law are designed to command believers in their behavior. So, take something Simon Peter wrote:

1 Peter 1:16 (ESV),

16 Since it is written, "You shall be holy for I am holy."

Where is it written?

Leviticus 11:44-45 (ESV),

44 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”

What then, is Simon Peter's conclusion?

1 Peter 1:15 (ESV),

15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct...

Simon Peter instructs all of us to be holy in all of our conduct, BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH, in Leviticus. He places an injunction, a command (See and consider Acts 1:2 here) upon his readers based, not on a principle, or merely a precedent, but upon a DIVINE COMMAND FROM YHWH, upon the New Covenant believer.

Anyone who does not regard this as BIBLICAL FACT is in their flesh, as far as I am concerned.

I don’t want it both ways and I have made up my mind. I don’t seek the righteousness that comes from the law, but from Jesus Christ.

You may only want it to be one way, but your argument logically concludes in having it both ways. And, just in case it needs to be said, submitting yourself to the commands of the law doesn't generate righteousness in you. Your faith in Christ imparts righteousness to you. But to think you can actively transgress the commands of God and think that that doesn't have any impact on your life in Christ is foolishness.

2 Corinthians 3:6-7
6......Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7......But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

I will stick with what is plainly stated by scripture.

If only you would.