John3 and Romans2: Part2

[donfriesen1]

The words describing me as a legalist as believing in salvation by good works are said, not because they can demonstrate that I believe this as a matter of my faith but are done only to discredit the Ro2 arguments I've made, stretching my statements to an extreme conclusion which they say I believe, when I do not.

When the phrase salvation by faith is used we summarize the many words of the Bible speaks on this subject into one neat little phrase. Any one studying the Bible realizes there is a little more to the salvation story than being saved by faith alone. When the phrase 'salvation by faith' is used it doesn't include the larger story behind the phrase, which is the Pharisaic efforts common in Jesus day which were done to earn salvation. The Jewish faith was originally given by God to Moses as a means for all the Jews to attain to a level of a righteous standing with God. If not so then their good works in following it was a wasted God-given religion. This is the purpose of religion, to join God and man together in peace. The essential elements of doing their original religion in such a way to bring them righteousness had been lost in the Pharisaic methods of attempting to gain it by good works without the faith elemants which the true Jewish religion was supposed to bring. We certainly believe today that men like Moses and David received righteousness by their practise of the Jewish religion. What these two had was missing in a religion of attaining it by keeping sets of rules that the Pharisies maintaned. It was a system which the Pharisses said would bring righteousness apart from a relationship with God that men like Moses and David had in their practse of the Jews religion. It was based on doing works to gain points with God.

Christians today may say that salvation comes by faith alone, implying that no good works are needed. I once talked to someone who was so hyped up on this 'faith alone' idea that he said it wasn't even necessary to repent! And then we also have silly people saying that if you believe in saving baptism for remission of sin that you believe in salvation by good works. But, having said that, we are all saved by good works whether we admit it or not. 1) As explained earlier, post 48, faith is an exercise of the will which requires the operation of the brain's atoms and molecules. Their movements thus are good works. 2) Salvation involves repentance, a) which involves turning from sin (action word, therefore a good work). b) restitution for wrongs done to others, if necessary and applicable. Also good works. 3) water baptism. Also a work which requires actions on our part and the preacher. 4) Speaking in tongues as initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost. This requires movement of the lips, tongue, vocal cords, lungs. These are good works. 5) Living a life free from sin, separated unto God's glory by good works which he has ordained we should walk in. These are good works. End of examples of salvation by good works. Let us Apostolics stop kidding ourselves that we are saved without good works. Grace is a gift which is freely offered without any merit on our part bringing it to us, but grace must be received. Received is an action word - good works. God's grace isn't irresistable and given to us whether we want it or not. It isn't forced on us and it thus requires our cooperation to receive it. Cooperation is an action word - good works.

The Gospel/epistle writers had their roots in Judaism, except for Luke, who may be a Gentile. In the back of their minds is that constant nagging legalism of the law they were joined to previous to becoming born again. It is my opinion, whenever they speak of salvation by faith they are always speaking comparatively in the back of their minds, faith-salvation is always contrasted with the salvation they thought they had in keeping the law alone. Saving faith is not something which works outside of any action on our part. It is irretractably linked with our good works. If you wish to call what has been described above as salvation by good works then knock yourself out. I'll call it for what it is - salvation by faith/obedience to the Gospel. If you wish to call me a legalist that is your privilege but is certainly not what I believe nor wish to be seen as portraying in Ro2.

What is done in any saying my describing these Gentiles as being saved by good works is it ignores the reality that all men have faith of sorts, either through an intuitive perception that the universe didn't come by itself or an internal soul-perception that God is. Some have faith from God's Word. Some don't have the Bible but that doesn't ever mean they are completely devoid of some faith. That there is some form of religion alive-and-well the world-over testifies that most Men have this inner faith that there is a God which compels them to make a religion. Those that wish to describe me as a legalist or believing in salvation by good works alone purposely ignore the fact that I've stated things like this before. They have an unhealthy desire for me to be shown as a legalist, shown as one believing in good-works-salvation even though I've stated previously contrarily. Why they go to these lengths to discredit me as a legalist and ignoring the contrary facts of what I had previously stated is for them to disclose. That this is being done by them speaks to something of an unhealthy attitude on their part. What's the unspoken agenda that requires this ignoring?