MERRY MITHRA - Christmas is pagan.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Christmas is so absolutely pagan. How anyone calling themselves a Christian can celebrate the celebration of Sol Invictus is baffling to me.


No Biblical scholar, with a sincere desire for truth, can honestly say Christmas is not pagan.

In Revelation 2 we see a command not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. The problem was not the meat but where the meat came from.

Kinda like christ mass.

Pagan at its core.

Can you provide an original source document originating prior to the first Christmas celebration that links the celebration of Sol Invictus to December 25?

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Can you provide an original source document originating prior to the first Christmas celebration that links the celebration of Sol Invictus to December 25?

Well, I googled Sol Invictus, page after page showed up. That is probably easier than linking something here. You might try it.

Sol Invictus is an ancient ceremony that deals with the worship of the sun. This old worship goes as far back Biblically as the Exodus when God commanded the Israelites to not worship the heavens as the former inhabitants had done before them.

Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

These were mentioned later on as the gods that the backslidden Israel worshipped in that they followed the gods of Syria.

Jdg 10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

The gods of Syria were gods of the heavens, ie the storm god, the sun god and the moon and stars gods.

This was old paganism that was then taken to other peoples and nations. We see that the sun god was worshipped by many different nations like Ra of the Egyptians, Sol for the Norsemen, Helios for the Greeks, and etc and etc.

The worship of the Sun God for the Northern Hemisphere was what we would call Dec 21st or 22nd, the shortest day of the year for that hemisphere. The day was celebrated for the rebirth of the sun as it begins to restrengthen or revive. The day 25th was brought in because of the Roman calendar which had their 25th on our 21 or 22nd. This was later adopted and celebrated later on as the 25th.

Now, we have those who, either because of ignorance or tradition, desire to celebrate the birth of Christ on this day even though Christ was not born on this day but was born in late September or early Oct depending on the Lunar calendar.

What we do read about is that early Christianity chose to take the time of year and spend it in prayer and fasting to counteract the paganism that was prevalent in that time of the year. Christmas as Christian was not instituted for centuries after Christ, usually attributed to around 273 AD.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well, I googled Sol Invictus, page after page showed up. That is probably easier than linking something here. You might try it.

Sol Invictus is an ancient ceremony that deals with the worship of the sun. This old worship goes as far back Biblically as the Exodus when God commanded the Israelites to not worship the heavens as the former inhabitants had done before them.

Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

These were mentioned later on as the gods that the backslidden Israel worshipped in that they followed the gods of Syria.

Jdg 10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

The gods of Syria were gods of the heavens, ie the storm god, the sun god and the moon and stars gods.

This was old paganism that was then taken to other peoples and nations. We see that the sun god was worshipped by many different nations like Ra of the Egyptians, Sol for the Norsemen, Helios for the Greeks, and etc and etc.

The worship of the Sun God for the Northern Hemisphere was what we would call Dec 21st or 22nd, the shortest day of the year for that hemisphere. The day was celebrated for the rebirth of the sun as it begins to restrengthen or revive. The day 25th was brought in because of the Roman calendar which had their 25th on our 21 or 22nd. This was later adopted and celebrated later on as the 25th.

Now, we have those who, either because of ignorance or tradition, desire to celebrate the birth of Christ on this day even though Christ was not born on this day but was born in late September or early Oct depending on the Lunar calendar.

What we do read about is that early Christianity chose to take the time of year and spend it in prayer and fasting to counteract the paganism that was prevalent in that time of the year. Christmas as Christian was not instituted for centuries after Christ, usually attributed to around 273 AD.

The earliest mention of a Christian Nativity of Christ holy day is from the Calendar of Philocalus, dated around 354 AD. And in fact, that calendar (created by a well to do Roman Christian) identified Dec 25th as the Nativity of Sol Invictus (a pagan holy feast day). The mention of Nativity of Christ as a holy day is vague and unconvincing to me, though it appears to ascribe Dec 25th as the day on which Christ was born, yet I can't find its reference to any Feast or celebration of Christ's Nativity.

Tertullian and other contemporaries made lists of Christian holy days but none of them ever mentioned Christmas. Thus showing that Christmas was at best a 4th century innovation, while also proving that Dec 25th was the Feast in celebration of the Birth of the Invicible Sun (Sol Invictus, Mithras, Helios, Baal, etc).

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well, I googled Sol Invictus, page after page showed up. That is probably easier than linking something here. You might try it.

Sol Invictus is an ancient ceremony that deals with the worship of the sun. This old worship goes as far back Biblically as the Exodus when God commanded the Israelites to not worship the heavens as the former inhabitants had done before them.

Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

These were mentioned later on as the gods that the backslidden Israel worshipped in that they followed the gods of Syria.

Jdg 10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

The gods of Syria were gods of the heavens, ie the storm god, the sun god and the moon and stars gods.

This was old paganism that was then taken to other peoples and nations. We see that the sun god was worshipped by many different nations like Ra of the Egyptians, Sol for the Norsemen, Helios for the Greeks, and etc and etc.

The worship of the Sun God for the Northern Hemisphere was what we would call Dec 21st or 22nd, the shortest day of the year for that hemisphere. The day was celebrated for the rebirth of the sun as it begins to restrengthen or revive. The day 25th was brought in because of the Roman calendar which had their 25th on our 21 or 22nd. This was later adopted and celebrated later on as the 25th.

Now, we have those who, either because of ignorance or tradition, desire to celebrate the birth of Christ on this day even though Christ was not born on this day but was born in late September or early Oct depending on the Lunar calendar.

What we do read about is that early Christianity chose to take the time of year and spend it in prayer and fasting to counteract the paganism that was prevalent in that time of the year. Christmas as Christian was not instituted for centuries after Christ, usually attributed to around 273 AD.

In other words, no, you could not provide the document I asked for.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Originalist

In other words, no, you could not provide the document I asked for.

https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/c...6_calendar.htm

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/c...6_calendar.htm

That is not an original source document. That is a commentary.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Originalist

That is not an original source document. That is a commentary.

You are insane.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You are insane.

Not insane. Just capable of answering the wrong post. My apologies. I was not meaning to address you.

The calendar you posted is fine, but what does it prove in your estimation?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Originalist

In other words, no, you could not provide the document I asked for.

Just been reading the back and forth, and I really do appreciate both sides of the argument.

Just so Im understanding what you're looking for. Are you wanting scripture that stats not to celebrate the Lords birth in any way, fashion, or form? Or outside scriptural documents that supports the celebration of the Lords birth is indeed pagan?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Just been reading the back and forth, and I really do appreciate both sides of the argument.

Just so Im understanding what you're looking for. Are you wanting scripture that stats not to celebrate the Lords birth in any way, fashion, or form? Or outside scriptural documents that supports the celebration of the Lords birth is indeed pagan?

I am looking for concrete proof that Christianity knowingly adapted pagan customs, god, and holidays when Christmas was instituted. Scholars seem to be divided on this. I have found several who say the pagans actually stole Christmas. I want to see a primary/original source document from the day that proves there was some sort of plan to paganize the church with Christmas.