3.5 years or 1260 years

coksiw · #1 09-13-2024, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hi all. Thanks for the thought s.

But it does mean seven....
Original: שׁבעה שׁבע שׁבוּע

Transliteration: shâbûa‛ shâbûa‛ shebû‛âh

Phonetic: shaw-boo'-ah

BDB Definition:

seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
period of seven days, a week
Feast of Weeks
heptad, seven (of years)

Find one instance in the Bible outside Daniel or one instance outside the Bible from a text that it is older than BC, where that word refers to seven years and I will change my mind.

Amanah · #2 09-13-2024, 02:53 PM

Both arguments are correct, but they're emphasizing different aspects of the word's meaning.

The first argument is correct that the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is related to the number seven. In Hebrew, the word is derived from the root "שׁבע" (shâba‛), which means "seven".

The second argument is also correct that the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) typically refers to a week, which is a period of seven days. In the context of the Old Testament, the word is often used to describe a week of days, as seen in the examples provided.

So, the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) has a dual meaning:

- It's related to the number seven.
- It typically refers to a week, which is a period of seven days.

In the context of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy, the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is used to describe a period of seventy weeks, which is understood to represent seventy weeks of years, rather than literal days. This interpretation is based on the context and the Year-Day Principle, as mentioned in the second argument.

~meta

After conducting a thorough search, I found no instances in scripture or outside of scripture where "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is translated simply as "7" outside of Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27).

In all other instances, "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is translated as "week" or "weeks", emphasizing the concept of a seven-day period. The word's connection to the number seven is evident, but it's not directly translated as "7" except in Daniel's prophecy, where it's understood to represent a period of seventy weeks of years.

~meta

mfblume · #3 09-13-2024, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

Find one instance in the Bible outside Daniel or one instance outside the Bible from a text that it is older than BC, where that word refers to seven years and I will change my mind.

I'm just giving definition from the Hebrew...

Linguistic Roots: The word "שבוע" (shavua) comes from the Hebrew root "שבע" (sheva), which means "seven."

Please look it up.

It's typically used for 7 days in a week, but that doesn't mean that's the literal definition of it.

Jacob had to work another week, literally week, to get Rachel. And that was 7 years.

coksiw · #4 09-13-2024, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I'm just giving definition from the Hebrew...

Linguistic Roots: The word "שבוע" (shavua) comes from the Hebrew root "שבע" (sheva), which means "seven."

Please look it up.

It's typically used for 7 days in a week, but that doesn't mean that's the literal definition of it.

Jacob had to work another week, literally week, to get Rachel. And that was 7 years.

That's not what Genesis 29 says.

[Genesis 29:18, 20 NKJV] 18 Now Jacob loved Rachel; so he said, "I will serve you seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel your younger daughter." ... 20 So Jacob served seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel, and they seemed [only] a few days to him because of the love he had for her.

Then,

[Genesis 29:27-28, 30 NKJV] 27 "Fulfill her week (shabua), and we will give you this one also for the service which you will serve with me still another seven years." 28 Then Jacob did so and fulfilled her week (shabua). So he gave him his daughter Rachel as wife also. ... 30 Then [Jacob] also went in to Rachel, and he also loved Rachel more than Leah. And he served with Laban still another seven years (sheba sanim).

Clear as water. Jacob waited total 7 years + one week to be able to be with Rachel.

The Septuagint also states it clear:

Laban said, It is not this way in our region, to give the younger one before the elder. Therefore finish the week for this one, and I will give you also this one for the work, which you will work with me yet another seven years. Jacob did so and completed the week for this one, and Laban gave Rachel his daughter, for him as wife... He loved Rachel more than Leah and served him another seven years.

The reason why the Lexicon says "seven of days or years" is because there is one book instance where "shabua" means symbolically seven years. But that's is an interpretation of the Lexicon, not an actually meaning of the word. It is like saying "sun" also means "father" because a prophecy had the "sun" meaning "father" symbolically. The Lexicon is incorrect. The only way to defend that "seven of years" is truly part of the semantic range is by proving that there are other places where the word is used to mean so that are not in the symbolic context.

mfblume · #5 09-17-2024, 09:56 AM

That could be the true point. Bravo.

However, and I need to read back some mor and see what you days about the most obvious one, , Daniel 9 is about seventy weeks of years not days.

But the lexicon says the word means seven, period. Shabua. . And it says days or years because that's how it is usually used in Hebrews. Not that years symbolize it. It is a heptad. Look up that term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

That's not what Genesis 29 says.

[Genesis 29:18, 20 NKJV] 18 Now Jacob loved Rachel; so he said, "I will serve you seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel your younger daughter." ... 20 So Jacob served seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel, and they seemed [only] a few days to him because of the love he had for her.

Then,

[Genesis 29:27-28, 30 NKJV] 27 "Fulfill her week (shabua), and we will give you this one also for the service which you will serve with me still another seven years." 28 Then Jacob did so and fulfilled her week (shabua). So he gave him his daughter Rachel as wife also. ... 30 Then [Jacob] also went in to Rachel, and he also loved Rachel more than Leah. And he served with Laban still another seven years (sheba sanim).

Clear as water. Jacob waited total 7 years + one week to be able to be with Rachel.

The Septuagint also states it clear:

Laban said, It is not this way in our region, to give the younger one before the elder. Therefore finish the week for this one, and I will give you also this one for the work, which you will work with me yet another seven years. Jacob did so and completed the week for this one, and Laban gave Rachel his daughter, for him as wife... He loved Rachel more than Leah and served him another seven years.

The reason why the Lexicon says "seven of days or years" is because there is one book instance where "shabua" means symbolically seven years. But that's is an interpretation of the Lexicon, not an actually meaning of the word. It is like saying "sun" also means "father" because a prophecy had the "sun" meaning "father" symbolically. The Lexicon is incorrect. The only way to defend that "seven of years" is truly part of the semantic range is by proving that there are other places where the word is used to mean so that are not in the symbolic context.