Jesus' Plan of Salvation?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

When Jesus told His disciples that was His body and blood, do you think they believed it was His body and blood?

He didn't tell that to the Disciples only

Joh 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Joh 6:41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
Joh 6:42 They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"
Joh 6:43 Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--
Joh 6:46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Joh 6:48 I am the bread of life.

It was the Jews that misunderstood him
Joh 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

NET
83 sn Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood. These words are at the heart of the discourse on the Bread of Life, and have created great misunderstanding among interpreters. Anyone who is inclined toward a sacramental viewpoint will almost certainly want to take these words as a reference to the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, or the Eucharist, because of the reference to eating and drinking. But this does not automatically follow: By anyone's definition there must be a symbolic element to the eating which Jesus speaks of in the discourse, and once this is admitted, it is better to understand it here, as in the previous references in the passage, to a personal receiving of (or appropriation of) Christ and his work.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Do you believe Jesus when He said "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life"?

Sure, in the same way I believe that "if any man DRINK of the water that I shall give him, he shall never thirst...."

Do you believe Jesus linked eternal life to being born again of the Spirit in John 3?

[renee819]

Communion in what?

You have to look at the big picture and not just concentrate on a few verses.

Jesus's Body, represents several things.

1. The Church.

1 Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit

.

2. The Manna/bread from heaven.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

How do we receive that “bread of life?” By receiving the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

.

Without the Holy Ghost, there is no Spiritual life. Jesus came expressly to bring “life” to those that will “believe as the scriptures has said.” Not as man has said, in thousands of Denominations.

3. The Word

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Most of what Jesus taught was in parables and figures of speech. He intended those that really want to know the truth to search the scriptures and when we do with an honest heart, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, will reveal the truth to us.

Since the wine, represents His blood, and is the New Testament in His blood, when we search the Word, we are drinking from the cup. However, it means even more than that, His blood represents the New Covenant---New Birth.

Jesus did not spell out the Plan of Salvation, except in Luke 24:45-50. He opened the Apostles eyes, gave them understanding of the true purpose that He came a few minutes before He was 'caught up.” Then after His resurrection, He was with them for 40 days, giving them COMMANDMENTS of how to set up the Church. And the full PLAN is revealed in Acts 2:38

And we continually “break the bread and drink from the cup” when we search His Word and 'remember' what He has done for us, in trying to live as holy life as we can understand.

Seekerman, Remember, Jesus started NO Church. He made the way for the Holy Ghost to be sent down, by the cross, and then He told the Apostles of the PLAN, and left them in charge of setting up the Church.

[KeptByTheWord]

The fact can't be denied that in 1 Cor. 11 we know the Gentile church in Corinth participated often enough in what Paul called communion, for there to be problems.

Paul mentions communion/the Lord's Supper in two different passages in 1 Corinthians...

1 Cor. 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? the bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Cor. 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body and we are all partakers of that one bread.

So Paul here was teaching the Corinthians how the symbolism of the communion they participated in, was to remind them how they were part of the body of Christ.

And again Paul teaches in 1 Cor. 11 the importance of what he had just called communion and also referred to as the Lord's Supper... how necessary it was to the body of believers.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Perhaps not having communion on a regular basis is part of what is wrong with the body of believers today? 1 Cor. 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes you can. Why?

Because they are two TOTALLY different contexts. Different days. Different audience. Different words.

John, outdoors, to the Jews, eating his flesh and blood

Mat, Indoors, to the Apostles, eating bread and wine to REPRESENT the flesh and blood.

But, hey, if you believe you need to save your own soul through works daily to earn Eternal Life...I can't stop you apparently

Outdoors, indoors.....what difference does it make? What's important is the word Jesus spoke, indoors or outdoors.

He promised eternal life to those who ate His body and drank His blood. He offered His body and blood to His disciples and they ate and drank. If they didn't obtain eternal life as Jesus said they would, then you can't depend on anything Jesus says.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Sure, in the same way I believe that "if any man DRINK of the water that I shall give him, he shall never thirst...."

Do you believe Jesus linked eternal life to being born again of the Spirit in John 3?

Let's first settle how one eats the body of Christ and drinks His blood. There's no argument that Jesus taught anyone who did that would have eternal life.

How do we today eat the body of Christ and drink His blood?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The fact can't be denied that in 1 Cor. 11 we know the Gentile church in Corinth participated often enough in what Paul called communion, for there to be problems.

Paul mentions communion/the Lord's Supper in two different passages in 1 Corinthians...

1 Cor. 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? the bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Cor. 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body and we are all partakers of that one bread.

So Paul here was teaching the Corinthians how the symbolism of the communion they participated in, was to remind them how they were part of the body of Christ.

And again Paul teaches in 1 Cor. 11 the importance of what he had just called communion and also referred to as the Lord's Supper... how necessary it was to the body of believers.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Perhaps not having communion on a regular basis is part of what is wrong with the body of believers today? 1 Cor. 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."

Yes, communion is so very very important in a Christian's life. Apparently it offers life changing power in the life of the believer.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Outdoors, indoors.....what difference does it make? What's important is the word Jesus spoke, indoors or outdoors.

He promised eternal life to those who ate His body and drank His blood. He offered His body and blood to His disciples and they ate and drank. If they didn't obtain eternal life as Jesus said they would, then you can't depend on anything Jesus says.

I already explained the difference it makes. Two different contexts. Two different. But as I said go ahead and eat bread and drink wine all the time to save your own soul. You dont need Jesus. You dont need the blood.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Perhaps not having communion on a regular basis is part of what is wrong with the body of believers today? 1 Cor. 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."

Unfortunately, I have never seen or found a 'pentecostal church' that actually eats the Lord's Supper. The closest I found was a Gospel Assembly ('Twoness') but they didn't seem to know what they were doing.

The vast majority of non catholics who 'have communion' or 'take communion' are simply engaging in a mimic of the Mass.

And the Mass is a horrible caricature of the Lord's Supper.

[Praxeas]

How often is enough to be saved?