Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The D.A.'s Office
Facebook

Notices

The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:26 PM
philjones
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
I am a member of NCO.
Not sure if thats popular.....but...dont care.
NYLP,

I too am a member but all that means is I sent them my email address and gave myself a password and I get e-mail messages from the leadership 3 from time to time.

That is how they got their 1000 members. I certainly have never been to a fellowship or attended any event sponsored by the NCO, not saying I wouldn't, but to date I have not.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:34 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by philjones View Post
NYLP,

I too am a member but all that means is I sent them my email address and gave myself a password and I get e-mail messages from the leadership 3 from time to time.

That is how they got their 1000 members. I certainly have never been to a fellowship or attended any event sponsored by the NCO, not saying I wouldn't, but to date I have not.
Does this mean we're brothers or something??? ... cause I'm a member too.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:38 PM
philjones
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Does this mean we're brothers or something??? ... cause I'm a member too.
Absolutely! Of course, I have considered you my brother from the first time I saw you posting and knew that you had been born again!

We probably have more in common than not... except for your claim to be more oneness and apostolic than everyone else! I am not quite as bold as you, my little brother (I'm 48)!
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:57 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
R. Saulters, an ex-UPCI preacher, wrote an article explaining why he left the org which is also featured on the NCO website.

http://www.newchurchorder.com/content/view/59/44/

A Place for You

For the past fourteen years, I have shared a burden with many whom I consider to be my "Spiritual Brothers" and that burden is to take “The Whole Gospel to The Whole World”. Through many concerted efforts I have enjoyed wonderful occasions of fellowship, and as these relationships formed through fellowship, I was brought together with like-minded men and women in mutually exclusive causes for the Kingdom’s sake. During the seven years I was privileged to travel as an Evangelist, I discovered many noble men of integrity and character who displayed a love for righteousness and truth.

In October of last year, after many months of seeking God’s direction for my life and ministry, the Lord gave me specific instructions regarding the steps that He had ordered for me. As a result, I formally submitted my resignation and immediate withdrawal from an organized religious system which attempts to manipulate and control, rather than release and empower.

My resignation was not over a doctrinal difference nor was it enveloped in personal grievance. As I did then, I do now affirm Biblical doctrine, apostolic witness, and sanctity of lifestyle. I was, I am, and I shall continue to be an Apostolic preacher! There are no personal animosities held and no perfunctory disputes ongoing. I had no desire then, nor do I now, to cause any undue conflict within the organizational system that I was affiliated with and it has never been my intention to influence anyone to pursue the path I am compelled to follow.

My decision to withdraw my membership was for me, one of character. I had agreed, when extended the privilege of fellowship within this particular organizational structure, to adhere to, stand for, and follow ALL of its bylaws. I also agreed to not be personally involved in anything that might be perceived as causing disunity or division within the body of this ministry group that I was in covenant with.

However, as you know, in time we find ourselves evolving and maturing and as a result, careful examination of the methods once ascribed to becomes necessary for continued growth. It is in this process that we discover great value and liberation in many things and yet, it is here that we also realize the insignificance, restrictive nature and smallness of others. Of course, in the context of this process our bounds must be firmly set within Biblical doctrine and mandates. In my case, the chaff that came from this time of threshing was only relegated to areas of so called “personal conscience” issues and the resulting culture of legalism that is created when the by-laws and judgments of men are elevated to a superior position over God’s.

I have found that legalism is an oft misunderstood term that is used loosely to support a myriad of actions, most of which are borne out of the carnal mind. So, for me, legalism is not:
  • The formatting of rules, the creating of guidelines nor the application of certain standards.
Legalism is the result of a centrality in focus upon the absolute adherence to codes of conduct established by men, which ignore the relevance of character and inner purity. This misdirected concentration leads ultimately to the excessive trust and reliance on man-made legislation for the security of righteousness. The fallacy of this is that it fails to ascertain the fact that true righteousness begins and is molded in the “inner sanctum” of the human heart and not in the “show” of fleshly performance that many have become so proficient at putting on display. It is my firm conviction that there are some things that should NEVER become the basis of fellowship, nor should anyone be expected to attest to them personally.

It has been my observation that most all “religious” organizational entities appear in action and attitude to be more interested in preserving and protecting their "Political Machine" and the image that its “named” ministers portray, rather than be willing to censure their own who have:
  • Perverted true spiritual authority through a pseudo-witchcraft of control tactics, fear and manipulation;
  • Made attempts to destroy and dismantle anyone who may disagree in areas of leadership style or modes of function within the body;
  • Consistently shown a propensity to inflate numbers for the sake of ego and self aggrandizement;
  • Given a prophetic voice that has proven to be false after the “appointed time”;
  • Created a hierarchy of nepotism that has produced a generation of “names” who are not qualified and lack true anointing.
Tragically, while it appears that nothing is done to stop the critical indifferences created by those who sit in judgment, many people have fallen by the wayside, having never been given the opportunity to express their God given gifts and talents simply because the movement they have placed so much confidence in is absolutely incapable of looking deeper than the visible, vocal or financial.

While the hierarchy of “Religiosity” spends valuable time legislating more addendums to articles and agendas to programs, their relevance to our culture (to which it has been called to reach with the gospel) is nonexistent and its methods completely outdated.

A dear friend of mine recently commented that the devil couldn’t stop the Messiah, so he hired the religious people of Jesus’ day to do it for him. There is NOTHING that stifles the life and creativity of the people of God and their work, like the spirit of religion working through the minds and hands of carnal churchmen.

In light of all of the aforementioned differences and the converging truths associated with properly correcting this error, I felt obligated to withdraw my membership from such a structure so that I could remain true to the intents that I declared at the genesis of my ministerial life and fellowship.
It is interesting to note that between the chapters of Acts 1 through 8, (which constitutes some 15-20 years according to most scholars), we clearly see the phenomenal growth the New Testament Church enjoyed. It was ever expanding during this time period. It is also noted that the perpetuity of the church has been placed in the hands of its leaders.
The early church encompassed true revival with growth from 120 to 3,000, and then it magnificently grew to over 5,000 men. Soon after, the writers can only list its membership as ... multitudes.

Furthermore, by Acts 8 we witness entire cities being converted. However, something begins to stifle and restrict the life of the church in the next few chapters and tragically by Acts 10 only households are being converted and by the time we read the record of chapter 19 - the great post - “Day of Pentecost” Revival that had shook the world some 30 years before has now dwindled to a hand full of misguided but sincere disciples of an incomplete gospel.

Clearly, the culprit is found within the confines of chapters 10-15:
It is here that policies and politics become involved and egos and eccentrics are placed in vocal but selective seats of judgment. Rather than allow men to follow the leading of the Spirit and be true to their calling, the ministry is now required to explain every evangelism tactic, as well as to validate its results. Committees are formed, legislation is demanded, schisms are birthed…and the life of revival is gone!

But if there is one valuable lesson to be learned and it is this ... Careful study reveals that the surprising core of the churches digression was not DOCTRINAL at all. It was simply the challenge to make the gospel more socially and culturally relevant, as well as accessible. It was the catalyst of change that offended those who had been “doing it” the same way for 30 years who were unwilling to even suppose or think that perhaps God was leading them to try something new!

In Revelation chapter 3, God gives a stunning and lethal rebuke to a church that appeared to have it all. He spoke of His desire to see them be hot or cold, because their lukewarmness only nauseated Him. This passage had held my attention for a long time, because in all my years of ministry, I have never understood why God would rather a “cold soul” than one who was at least “partially warm“.

Yet, after careful study and meditation on these verses, I discovered that the church to which these words were penned had no permanent, self-supplying water source. Thus, Laodicea relied upon two specific cities to provide their natural need of water. One city was Hierapolis, which sat some 10 miles North of Laodicea and had copious, medicinal “hot springs” that found there source in subterranean lava vents. The other city was Colossae, which sat some 7 miles East of Laodicea and boasted “cool artesian” springs.

Aqua-ducts were built to service Laodicea’s poor drinking conditions, but the tragedy was that by the time the water from the two cities converged at Laodicea ... the water was just a tepid lukewarm. It was too cool to heal, but it was to warm to refresh. The end result is a Savior on the outside, looking in at a church that failed to realize they had missed their purpose; to be an extension of God to a lost and hurting world.

The purpose of the church is not to legislate codes of conduct, nor to insulate its members from the world. The church has been called to reach the masses with “minimal” restriction and abundant provision. This time, this season of life demand that we use every embellishment and resource available and then reach for new venues of communication so that, at least some may hear the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Continued ....
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:58 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
The church must become a theocracy again, where God reigns and His purpose is paramount. We must create an atmosphere of relevance and bring the church full-circle to a book of Acts setting where man made restrictions are removed and only Biblical guidelines remain so our flesh may be covered and God only truly reigns. The church cannot be a “man made” structure driven by flesh. It cannot be votes, committees, politics or policies. It cannot be “Lorded” over by men with personal agendas, or “names”, or those who boast with the loudest voice about false and cunning tales of revival which are given through inflated numbers of converts in an attempt to create a perceived position of prominence. Furthermore, the churches actions cannot be characterized nor coerced though judgment, legalism, creeds, affirmations or character assassination!

It was in my searching that God led me to such a place where God reigns and men are empowered and also released, without the fear of someone’s ministry surpassing another, to be whatever God has placed in their hearts to become. It is a place where everyone has a recognizable gift and their contribution to Kingdom work is considered. Although each call is not equal, every called out one is relevant to the entire cause. For example, It may be the exuberant, animated ministry of the preached word through an Evangelist, the pedantic and didactic instruction of a Pastor, the motivating and pleasurable atmosphere that a Psalmist creates through his/her music, or the eloquent and articulate penmanship that a Wordsmith may write with ... in this place everyone is encouraged to invest themselves in fulfilling the mission of Jesus Christ.


That place is the New Church Order.
It is here that I have found true Apostolic Government in Dr. Wendell Hutchins II, and an Accurate and Anointed Prophetic Voice in Prophet Jonathan Suber. Although these men are but mere reflections of many others, who like I, have chosen to follow God at the expense of all else, I have become connected with many others who felt so all alone on the journey to advance the Kingdom of God. Are you tired of traditionalism and dead religion? Are you ready to move forward and grasp the contents of a fresh move of the Spirit? Are you thru performing for people? Are you weary with trying to fit in the mold others have created for you? If so, there is a place for you. That place is the New Church Order. Let me be the first to say, “Welcome to the Revolution!”



---------------------------------
Seems pretty scathing!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:09 PM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
The church cannot be a “man made” structure driven by flesh. It cannot be votes, committees, politics or policies. It cannot be “Lorded” over by men with personal agendas, or “names”, or those who boast with the loudest voice about false and cunning tales of revival which are given through inflated numbers of converts in an attempt to create a perceived position of prominence. Furthermore, the churches actions cannot be characterized nor coerced though judgment, legalism, creeds, affirmations or character assassination!

---------------------------------
Seems pretty scathing!!!!
Give it time and every organization will embody one or more of those elements . . . including the NCO and AWCF.

Politics will always be present, votes, committees will always be in place in any organization.

The rest (inflated numbers, judgementalism, legalism, character assassination, etc will always be in force as long as there is flesh.

Give it a new name, wrap it in a cool, fresh, tech-friendly package . . . but it's nothing new and will soon become as every other.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:28 PM
Ferd's Avatar
Ferd Ferd is offline
I remain the Petulant Chevalier


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 17,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind View Post
Any one have audio only fir pod-listening?????
just click the link and close your eyes.
__________________
If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My Countdown Counting down to: Days left till the end of the opressive Texas Summer!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:30 PM
StillStanding's Avatar
StillStanding StillStanding is offline
Beautiful are the feet......


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right...behind...you!
Posts: 6,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
just click the link and close your eyes.
__________________
Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:44 PM
Dedicated Mind Dedicated Mind is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,711
does the awcf have any negatives? What are the heresies being embraced, or is it just a lack of formal standards?
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Charlie Brown's Avatar
Charlie Brown Charlie Brown is offline
Block Head


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
does the awcf have any negatives? What are the heresies being embraced, or is it just a lack of formal standards?
Elder Epley has filled our ears with quite a bit of the beginnings of the AWCF. The founder, according to him, believed in a Twinity of sorts. I can't remember what else there was.
__________________



It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
G. H. Hardy

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If your church board told you, "Leave the UPCI" - Or leave this Church???? Neck Fellowship Hall 40 04-01-2008 04:11 PM
"Today, A Sad Day For The Upci" Bishop1 Fellowship Hall 334 02-11-2008 05:04 PM
What was the UPCI "Philippines Fiasco" that Took Place in the late 1980s??? StillStanding Fellowship Hall 47 02-04-2008 10:09 PM
Seven kids get "it" or "Him" at youth camp Sherri Fellowship Hall 10 07-16-2007 01:57 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Costeon

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.