Jewish Feasts

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So if we "walk in the spirit" we can break the commandments, eh?

No you will be doing this rather,,,,,,Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


Bearing the fruit of the Spirit is our REPLACEMENT for the Law(10 commandments)

[houston]

This place is hilarious!!!

[KeptByTheWord]

And one more thing... if the Sabbath should still be kept, don't you think Jesus would have risen from the dead on the Sabbath, to ensure that it be kept as both a celebration of his death, burial and resurrection, and of the new creation that God rested from? However, from all accounts, we know that Jesus indeed did not rise on the Sabbath, instead he rose on the first day of the week, a new day... a day that is a day now of rejoicing, Jesus became the Sabbath rest, and the first day of the week is now the day of rejoicing in his victory at Calvary.

From Hebrews 4, we learn that entering into rest can be lost by unbelief, and the writer taught that we who have believed have entered into rest (Heb. 4:3). Our rest is our belief in Jesus, as He became our rest, indeed the Sabbath rest that had been promised.

The first day of the week is now a day to rejoice, and to celebrate and to come together and enjoy the Lord's Supper, rejoicing in the work of the cross.

This is why there is record of early Christians celebrating the day of Jesus' resurrection on the first day of the week, and celebrating the Lord's Supper together with the body of Christ, as we see in 1 Cor. 11.

[Esaias]

1. "Why didn't Paul teach gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath?"

Rome had already abandoned their 8 day week in favour of the seven day week of Judea. Many non Jews actually kept the Sabbath in various ways. More importantly, all four gospels and the book of Acts call the seventh day of the week "the Sabbath" which shows they considered the seventh day of the week to be the Sabbath - including Luke who wrote Acts.

Most of the Gentiles who were converted by Paul's preaching were "God fearers" ie gentiles who believed in YHVH and who attended synagogue on the Sabbath. Acts 14 shows gentiles asking Paul to teach them "next Sabbath". Thus most gentile converts already knew about the ten commandments and the Sabbath.

Paul taught the same things to all, and in all churches. And he taught repeatedly the law of God was pure right holy and good. He also taught that faith and grace establish the law of God and are never reasons for violating or abrogating the commandments of God.

He taught "all scripture is suitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness" and by scripture he obviously meant what we call the old testament. If gentile believers followed his teaching they obviously would be exposed to the fourth commandment.

Hebrews 4 states clearly that sabbath keeping remains for the people of God. The Greek is crystal clear, there remains a "sabbatism" to God's people and a sabbatism is a "keeping of the sabbath". See here: http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/10...h/sabbatismos/

Paul taught the Corinthians to keep Passover and Unleavened Bread in 1st Cor 5. In fact his statements make it clear they were observing the feast already but needed to clean their act up spiritually so as not to be hypocrites.

In Galatians as I previously noted the gentile Christians were told to keep holy days as taught by the universal custom of the church not as taught by Judaizing Pharisees.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. "Why didn't Paul teach gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath?"

Rome had already abandoned their 8 day week in favour of the seven day week of Judea. Many non Jews actually kept the Sabbath in various ways. More importantly, all four gospels and the book of Acts call the seventh day of the week "the Sabbath" which shows they considered the seventh day of the week to be the Sabbath - including Luke who wrote Acts.

Most of the Gentiles who were converted by Paul's preaching were "God fearers" ie gentiles who believed in YHVH and who attended synagogue on the Sabbath. Acts 14 shows gentiles asking Paul to teach them "next Sabbath". Thus most gentile converts already knew about the ten commandments and the Sabbath.

Can you quote exactly where in Acts 14 it says this? I couldn't find it.

There is no doubt that there were issues in the early NT of how to go about exactly changing over from the old covenant to the new. There was a lot of distress about it, as seen by the council in Jerusalem, and the multiple attempts by the Jews to silence and kill Paul because of what he was teaching. Obviously Paul was teaching some things that meant the law had changed, to get them so worked up about it.

Again, I state though... Paul NEVER, not once clarifies the Sabbath issue distinctly by saying" KEEP THE SABBATH" etc., although much time is spent on other issues relating to Christian living. And, he never says "DO NOT KEEP THE SABBATH" ... which leaves open to speculation... what exactly did he teach?

I believe he taught, as in Romans 14 - for those who felt led to keep the feasts, sabbaths, and feast days to do so... but for those who did not feel those things were necessary for their salvation to not be hindered by those who did.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul taught the same things to all, and in all churches. And he taught repeatedly the law of God was pure right holy and good. He also taught that faith and grace establish the law of God and are never reasons for violating or abrogating the commandments of God.

He taught "all scripture is suitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness" and by scripture he obviously meant what we call the old testament. If gentile believers followed his teaching they obviously would be exposed to the fourth commandment.

Yes, Paul taught out of the OT scriptures... but he also taught that Jesus had fulfilled the old law, that it had been done away with on the cross, and that now the law is written on our hearts.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hebrews 4 states clearly that sabbath keeping remains for the people of God. The Greek is crystal clear, there remains a "sabbatism" to God's people and a sabbatism is a "keeping of the sabbath". See here: http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/10...h/sabbatismos/

Clearly states? I don't think so. Maybe that is your understanding, but there is no clear "THOU SHALT KEEP THE SABBATH" anywhere in Heb. 4.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul taught the Corinthians to keep Passover and Unleavened Bread in 1st Cor 5. In fact his statements make it clear they were observing the feast already but needed to clean their act up spiritually so as not to be hypocrites.

Paul mentions the feast of unleavened bread as an example to them to make his point, not to enforce that they keep the Feast of Unleavened bread, but he was making his point a spiritual matter, and not a physical keeping of the feast. 1 Cor. 5:8 "Therefore let us keep the feast not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." Obviously a spiritual application and point being made here, not a physical application.

Originally Posted by Esaias

In Galatians as I previously noted the gentile Christians were told to keep holy days as taught by the universal custom of the church not as taught by Judaizing Pharisees.

Where? Is this the one you mentioned being in Colossians? Please list the scripture.

[Esaias]

2. "Isn't Sunday more important than the Sabbath because of the Resurrection?"

First of all if it was then we might ask "Where does the new testament say or teach this?" Well it doesn't. While Jesus' resurrection was made known to his disciples on the first day of the week the resurrection appears from the gospel accounts to have occured on Saturday night not Sunday morning. In any event, the bible speaks of him rising "the third day" not "the first day of the week". The church always spoke of the seventh day of the week as "the Sabbath" and never spoke of the first day of the week as anything other than the first day of the week.

There is no scriptural command or example of Christians holding Sunday as holy or as a replacement of the Sabbath. We are not free to create holy days based on our sentiments or what we think ought to be "more important".

The seventh day was made HOLY and BLESSED by God before sin even entered the world. Rememberibg the Sabbath day is a God ordained means of honouring God as the Creator, among other things. It was "made for man" long before any Jew walked the earth and thus by the declaration of Jesus we know it was therefore made for "gentiles". All people not Jews are supposedly gentiles therefore it was made for gentiles as a blessing. lol

The new testament has no record or implication that Christians kept Sunday as holy or a replacement of the Sabbath. Church history proves seventh day Sabbath keeping continued among all Christians for at least 300 years after the Lord's resurrection - except among those in Rome and Alexandria which were the two primary maternity wards of just about every heresy and apostacy to come down the line.

It is impossible to honour God by ignoring and transgressing his commandments. "Hereby we know that we love him, if we keep his commandments" and that includes the ten commandments because HE GAVE THEM.

Jesus specifically claimed to be "Lord of the Sabbath" so the only day of the week that could properly be called "the Lord's Day" would be the Sabbath. No writer in the first hundred or so years after the new testament was written referred to Sunday as "the Lord's Day" except the followrts of Mithra...

Again, there is no record in scripture of Christians celebrating Sunday or of them eating the Lord's Supper on Sunday (unless EVERY supper eaten by Christians is the Lord's Supper... in which case they often ate the Lord's Supper EVERY DAY).

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

2. "Isn't Sunday more important than the Sabbath because of the Resurrection?"

First of all if it was then we might ask "Where does the new testament say or teach this?" Well it doesn't. While Jesus' resurrection was made known to his disciples on the first day of the week the resurrection appears from the gospel accounts to have occured on Saturday night not Sunday morning. In any event, the bible speaks of him rising "the third day" not "the first day of the week". The church always spoke of the seventh day of the week as "the Sabbath" and never spoke of the first day of the week as anything other than the first day of the week.

There is no scriptural command or example of Christians holding Sunday as holy or as a replacement of the Sabbath. We are not free to create holy days based on our sentiments or what we think ought to be "more important".

Correction, yes there is mention that the Corinthian Christians met on the first day of the week: 1 Cor. 16:1-2.

Originally Posted by Esaias

The seventh day was made HOLY and BLESSED by God before sin even entered the world. Rememberibg the Sabbath day is a God ordained means of honouring God as the Creator, among other things. It was "made for man" long before any Jew walked the earth and thus by the declaration of Jesus we know it was therefore made for "gentiles". All people not Jews are supposedly gentiles therefore it was made for gentiles as a blessing. lol

There is no scriptural record that the Sabbath was kept until the Mosaic law was given.

Originally Posted by Esaias

The new testament has no record or implication that Christians kept Sunday as holy or a replacement of the Sabbath. Church history proves seventh day Sabbath keeping continued among all Christians for at least 300 years after the Lord's resurrection - except among those in Rome and Alexandria which were the two primary maternity wards of just about every heresy and apostacy to come down the line.

It is impossible to honour God by ignoring and transgressing his commandments. "Hereby we know that we love him, if we keep his commandments" and that includes the ten commandments because HE GAVE THEM.

Jesus specifically claimed to be "Lord of the Sabbath" so the only day of the week that could properly be called "the Lord's Day" would be the Sabbath. No writer in the first hundred or so years after the new testament was written referred to Sunday as "the Lord's Day" except the followrts of Mithra...

Again, there is no record in scripture of Christians celebrating Sunday or of them eating the Lord's Supper on Sunday (unless EVERY supper eaten by Christians is the Lord's Supper... in which case they often ate the Lord's Supper EVERY DAY).

When they were gathered together eating the Lord's Supper, it does not say whether it was Sabbath, or what day of the week it was. It appears that whenever the Christians gathered, that the Lord's Supper was celebrated.

[Esaias]

Btw there is NO scripture that "Jesus became our Sabbath". It is a common saying and a popular doctrine but it is not found in the Bible anymore than the trinity doctrine is. In fact it is kind of weird to say "Jesus is our seventh day" which is what the saying actually boils down to...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Btw there is NO scripture that "Jesus became our Sabbath". It is a common saying and a popular doctrine but it is not found in the Bible anymore than the trinity doctrine is. In fact it is kind of weird to say "Jesus is our seventh day" which is what the saying actually boils down to...

Jesus said He would give us rest. Hebrews 4 speaks of a spiritual rest and uses sabbath as a shadow of that. The Baptism of the Spirit is the rest wherein He would cause the weary to rest. It's everywhere.

Mat 11:28 KJV Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Heb 4:1-9 KJV Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (5) And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. (6) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: (7) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. (8) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Heb 4:9 KJV There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4 is especially insightful. It lists the sabbath day as well as entrance into Canaan as foreshadows of the rest. The idea is that God's people have not entered a certain rest that is intended for them. The argument noted how the SEVENTH DAY was a rest that was spoken way back in creation (!) in verse 4, and yet was followed by ANOTHER plea for people to enter the rest in verse 5, referencing Psalm 95 (long after the sabbath day was referenced). That Psalm mentioned the REST of Canaan saying that JOSHUA (JESUS IN GREEK) was meant to bring Israel into a rest as well. The fact remained that no one entered it yet as of that time! The sabbath day did not do it. Joshua in the Exodus did not do it. Psalm, 95:3 said there was still a call to the rest.

The way in which to enter the rest is to believe and not doubt. More about that in a bit.

The writer of Hebrews 4 kept listing references to a REST that did not satisfy the Lord as far as actually fulfilling His desire. JOSHUA is referred to using the Greek version of his name Jesus (not meant to be understood as Jesus Christ). He failed to bring them into rest in the form of the land of Canaan. The reasoning the writer used was that if sabbath answered the need, then Joshua would not have been said to bring them to a rest long after sabbath was instituted. And in turn, if Joshua succeeded, then a call for folks to enter the rest would not have been given long after Joshua in Psalm 95. as there is.

So, the conclusion after listing sabbath day, entrance into Canaan and finally a third call in Psalm 95, is that THERE REMAINS A REST that those opportunities did not satisfy. It is a spiritual rest. Not a day nor a land. A spiritual rest. It is ceasing from our own labours, but not in the sense that sabbath day rest speaks about. This cessation of labour is a spiritual one.

It is partaking of Christ in all the work of the cross afforded us. A sword stands in this entrance to the rest, as it did in the Garden when Adam was cast out after the sabbath day was instituted and a sword blocked the way, and in Canaan where Joshua saw an angel with a sword. THIS SWORD is the word of God with which we must believe. Since UNBELIEF hinders us from this spiritual rest, the SWORD is in the entrance to cut into our hearts and remove unbelief with it's encouragement and faith-building truths. Like a laser, the word of God is preached and nails the unbelief wherever it is found in our hearts, for He is a discerner of the thoughts of our hearts, even its intents. So, He can find where the unbelief is and cut it out, so to speak as we hear truth and it enlivens our faith.

The entrance to this rest has the SWORD, which takes us spiritually back to dominion where Adam did not labour like a farmer in the Garden, but where God planted the Garden and watered it. It is a rest where we reap where we have not sown.

But it's not the carnal and material and physical rest from physical work that sabbath day involved. It's the spiritual reality beyond that mere shadow. Adam was meant to rest forevermore. But he failed. And entered into a curse of WORKS.

So many believers are in that failed mess of works, too. Works to better themselves before God is only legalism. the cross is a finished work that provided all that had to be provided for our completion. I do not have to lift one little finger to be pleasing to God. So I can REST in the work of the cross as far as being complete goes. THAT is what sabbath foreshadowed. THAT is what entrance into Canaan foreshadowed.

It's not a day, brother. It's a LIFE.

After Hebrews 4 nailed the whole issue, no one should think that the sabbath day is the point again. Hebrews 10 repeats the concept and says we must enter into the holiest (the rest), by the blood of Jesus, and not our good works. The work of the cross opened up the veil into the holiest physically when Jesus died to FORESHADOW the Edenic KINGDOM life we should be living. But so many stress out and never rest in their struggles everyday due to unbelief as though GOD IS NOT WITH THEM, not realizing and that the cross united us to God so that He can strengthen us to overcome any obstacles. And if we are not delivered form a trial or struggle, the will of God is for us to REST in it knowing all will be okay anyway. Like Jesus slept in the boat during the storm.

Heb 10:19-23 KJV Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) And having an high priest over the house of God; (22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

So, YES, Jesus IS THE REST, and it is laid out in Hebrews 4 through 10. It's just that it is not laid out plainly there. Hebrews is like the words of Paul that Peter commented about, saying they are hard to be understood. But Jesus IS the rest.

[mfblume]

Romans 14.

The context is about accepting brethren in the church despite differences in Law-keeping.

Before mention of the day is made, we read of those who limit their diets to certain foods.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Since the question is whether or not the Sabbath day is involved in this chapter, I will stick to the issue of what elements he spoke about rather than explain all of the overall point.

Eating herbs or eating anything is the issue. Paul spoke of people who are either weak in faith or strong in faith. This means it is an issue of GRACE and faith as opposed to Law and legalism.

This stems from the Old Testament where we are told dietary regulations existed. Jews who lived in Gentile regions would not eat any meat at all for fear of eating non-Kosher food. So they stuck to vegetables alone to avoid the hassle. After all, Paul was talking to the ROMANS. People in the church of Rome, a Gentile region.

Romans 14:5-6 KJV One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Here is the mention of the day. Esteeming one day above another is contrasted from esteeming every day alike. This cannot be speaking of fasting, since that would not be esteeming a DAY but rather FOOD altogether. When a day is esteemed above another, that has nothing to do with a day of fasting. ANY day can be chosen for a fast, and the day does not become esteemed in and of itself even though a person chooses to fast in that day. Without doubt it is a contrast between keeping days holy and not keeping days holy.

But Paul chose to conclude that one party should leave the other party with God to judge the issue, and not make it a dividing line of fellowship as some do.