Are Tongues Real?

[james34]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Have you received the gift of the Holy Ghost? If yes, tell us what happened.

We can discuss that at some point, but we don’t want to try to interpret the Scriptures by our personal experiences do we?

[votivesoul]

I don't think it's an either/or phenomena.

Clearly what Esaias has written is correct. The text is unambiguous: "they heard them".

However, the text describes an interesting occurrence:

Some heard the disciples of Christ declaring the wonderful works of God. Others heard merely the garbled mutterings of the intoxicated.

Why did some hear in their own language the disciples praising God and others, not hearing a language at all, dismissed them as drunken sots?

Well, keep in mind that Simon Peter said the following regarding the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:33 (ESV),

33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

It's not just that the crowd heard them speaking in heterais glossais (Acts 2:4), they also saw the movements of their mouths.

Those who responded well to the stimulus were thus able to hear the disciples declare the wonderful works of God. Those who responded poorly, accused them of being full of new wine.

So, what makes for the difference? The difference is, what are you primed to hear? What is your predisposition?

We know that later on in Acts 2, there were still two categories of people in the crowd: those who gladly received Simon Peter's words and agreed to baptism, and everyone else.

This shows that some were open to the miraculous move of the Holy Spirit, and others were obstinate of heart.

In not so many words, the Acts 2 account is describing a very interesting auditory effect not too dissimilar to the Brainstorm or Green Needle phenomena, recently made famous through social media a couple of years ago. Have a look below in the video below.

If you watch and listen to the video, depending on which of the two phrases you visually encounter first, or focus on, you will hear that phrase in place of the other. But if you refresh your focus and come back to the video, attending to the other phrase, you will hear that one instead.

But the audio is the same no matter which phrase you happen to hear.

I submit it's similar to speaking with other tongues. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance. The "language" as it were, is not a known language of human origin. It is supernatural in derivation, of the heavenly realm, i.e. the "tongues...of angels", as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

And, depending upon one's predisposition, they will, in effect, "hear what they want to hear".

In Acts 16:4, we read of Lydia, and how the Lord had already opened her heart, making her ready to hear what Paul would come to preach. So, for those whose hearts have been opened by the Lord, when they encounter someone speaking with other tongues, they will be amazed, impressed, certain that it is the work of God. But for those whose hearts remain closed, if or when they hear someone speak with other tongues, they will disclaim it as aberrant, abhorrent, even of the devil.

In this, then, the miracle occurs in the speaker, but the effect of the miracle takes place in the hearer, depending on the tenderness or hardness of the heart. Pharoah comes to mind. The Lord hardens whom He hardens and has mercy on whom He will have mercy.

[james34]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I don't think it's an either/or phenomena.

Clearly what Esaias has written is correct. The text is unambiguous: "they heard them".

However, the text describes an interesting occurrence:

Some heard the disciples of Christ declaring the wonderful works of God. Others heard merely the garbled mutterings of the intoxicated.

Why did some hear in their own language the disciples praising God and others, not hearing a language at all, dismissed them as drunken sots?

Well, keep in mind that Simon Peter said the following regarding the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:33 (ESV),



It's not just that the crowd heard them speaking in heterais glossais (Acts 2:4), they also saw the movements of their mouths.

Those who responded well to the stimulus were thus able to hear the disciples declare the wonderful works of God. Those who responded poorly, accused them of being full of new wine.

So, what makes for the difference? The difference is, what are you primed to hear? What is your predisposition?

We know that later on in Acts 2, there were still two categories of people in the crowd: those who gladly received Simon Peter's words and agreed to baptism, and everyone else.

This shows that some were open to the miraculous move of the Holy Spirit, and others were obstinate of heart.

In not so many words, the Acts 2 account is describing a very interesting auditory effect not too dissimilar to the Brainstorm or Green Needle phenomena, recently made famous through social media a couple of years ago. Have a look below in the video below.

If you watch and listen to the video, depending on which of the two phrases you visually encounter first, or focus on, you will hear that phrase in place of the other. But if you refresh your focus and come back to the video, attending to the other phrase, you will hear that one instead.

But the audio is the same no matter which phrase you happen to hear.

I submit it's similar to speaking with other tongues. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance. The "language" as it were, is not a known language of human origin. It is supernatural in derivation, of the heavenly realm, i.e. the "tongues...of angels", as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

And, depending upon one's predisposition, they will, in effect, "hear what they want to hear".

In Acts 16:4, we read of Lydia, and how the Lord had already opened her heart, making her ready to hear what Paul would come to preach. So, for those whose hearts have been opened by the Lord, when they encounter someone speaking with other tongues, they will be amazed, impressed, certain that it is the work of God. But for those whose hearts remain closed, if or when they hear someone speak with other tongues, they will disclaim it as aberrant, abhorrent, even of the devil.

In this, then, the miracle occurs in the speaker, but the effect of the miracle takes place in the hearer, depending on the tenderness or hardness of the heart. Pharoah comes to mind. The Lord hardens whom He hardens and has mercy on whom He will have mercy.

Yep whatever happened on Pentecost doesn’t seem to be happening in modern day Apostolic/Pentecost churches.

[james34]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I don't think it's an either/or phenomena.

Clearly what Esaias has written is correct. The text is unambiguous: "they heard them".

However, the text describes an interesting occurrence:

Some heard the disciples of Christ declaring the wonderful works of God. Others heard merely the garbled mutterings of the intoxicated.

Why did some hear in their own language the disciples praising God and others, not hearing a language at all, dismissed them as drunken sots?

Well, keep in mind that Simon Peter said the following regarding the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:33 (ESV),



It's not just that the crowd heard them speaking in heterais glossais (Acts 2:4), they also saw the movements of their mouths.

Those who responded well to the stimulus were thus able to hear the disciples declare the wonderful works of God. Those who responded poorly, accused them of being full of new wine.

So, what makes for the difference? The difference is, what are you primed to hear? What is your predisposition?

We know that later on in Acts 2, there were still two categories of people in the crowd: those who gladly received Simon Peter's words and agreed to baptism, and everyone else.

This shows that some were open to the miraculous move of the Holy Spirit, and others were obstinate of heart.

In not so many words, the Acts 2 account is describing a very interesting auditory effect not too dissimilar to the Brainstorm or Green Needle phenomena, recently made famous through social media a couple of years ago. Have a look below in the video below.

If you watch and listen to the video, depending on which of the two phrases you visually encounter first, or focus on, you will hear that phrase in place of the other. But if you refresh your focus and come back to the video, attending to the other phrase, you will hear that one instead.

But the audio is the same no matter which phrase you happen to hear.

I submit it's similar to speaking with other tongues. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance. The "language" as it were, is not a known language of human origin. It is supernatural in derivation, of the heavenly realm, i.e. the "tongues...of angels", as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

And, depending upon one's predisposition, they will, in effect, "hear what they want to hear".

In Acts 16:4, we read of Lydia, and how the Lord had already opened her heart, making her ready to hear what Paul would come to preach. So, for those whose hearts have been opened by the Lord, when they encounter someone speaking with other tongues, they will be amazed, impressed, certain that it is the work of God. But for those whose hearts remain closed, if or when they hear someone speak with other tongues, they will disclaim it as aberrant, abhorrent, even of the devil.

In this, then, the miracle occurs in the speaker, but the effect of the miracle takes place in the hearer, depending on the tenderness or hardness of the heart. Pharoah comes to mind. The Lord hardens whom He hardens and has mercy on whom He will have mercy.

Isaiah 28
1 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear

This is the way it was prophesied, and this is how it happened. It was a known language spoken by Galileans who did not know the language. It was done in the presence of Jewish people who would not have given ear to the Gospel, were it not for a notable miracle such as the gift of tongues.
The idea that they didn’t hear ( believe the report / the gospel ) was due to unbelief and hardness of heart. It was not an inability to understand the tongue, they did understand it, ( yet for all this they will not hear) The hard hearted Jews rejected the gospel , even though they witnessed a notable miracle.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I don't think it's an either/or phenomena.

Clearly what Esaias has written is correct. The text is unambiguous: "they heard them".

However, the text describes an interesting occurrence:

Some heard the disciples of Christ declaring the wonderful works of God. Others heard merely the garbled mutterings of the intoxicated.

Why did some hear in their own language the disciples praising God and others, not hearing a language at all, dismissed them as drunken sots?

Well, keep in mind that Simon Peter said the following regarding the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:33 (ESV),



It's not just that the crowd heard them speaking in heterais glossais (Acts 2:4), they also saw the movements of their mouths.

Those who responded well to the stimulus were thus able to hear the disciples declare the wonderful works of God. Those who responded poorly, accused them of being full of new wine.

So, what makes for the difference? The difference is, what are you primed to hear? What is your predisposition?

We know that later on in Acts 2, there were still two categories of people in the crowd: those who gladly received Simon Peter's words and agreed to baptism, and everyone else.

This shows that some were open to the miraculous move of the Holy Spirit, and others were obstinate of heart.

In not so many words, the Acts 2 account is describing a very interesting auditory effect not too dissimilar to the Brainstorm or Green Needle phenomena, recently made famous through social media a couple of years ago. Have a look below in the video below.

If you watch and listen to the video, depending on which of the two phrases you visually encounter first, or focus on, you will hear that phrase in place of the other. But if you refresh your focus and come back to the video, attending to the other phrase, you will hear that one instead.

But the audio is the same no matter which phrase you happen to hear.

I submit it's similar to speaking with other tongues. The Holy Spirit gives the utterance. The "language" as it were, is not a known language of human origin. It is supernatural in derivation, of the heavenly realm, i.e. the "tongues...of angels", as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

And, depending upon one's predisposition, they will, in effect, "hear what they want to hear".

In Acts 16:4, we read of Lydia, and how the Lord had already opened her heart, making her ready to hear what Paul would come to preach. So, for those whose hearts have been opened by the Lord, when they encounter someone speaking with other tongues, they will be amazed, impressed, certain that it is the work of God. But for those whose hearts remain closed, if or when they hear someone speak with other tongues, they will disclaim it as aberrant, abhorrent, even of the devil.

In this, then, the miracle occurs in the speaker, but the effect of the miracle takes place in the hearer, depending on the tenderness or hardness of the heart. Pharoah comes to mind. The Lord hardens whom He hardens and has mercy on whom He will have mercy.

Excellent explanation! You said it better than I did.

[james34]

Perhaps there are those who will say without tongues they wouldn’t have known that they had received the Holy Ghost. Sad, that there are so many convinced that this is all that happens initially.

[james34]

But go and tarry in Jerusalem until……….. and I’m gonna leave that blank and whatever it is that they were supposed to be waiting for they weren’t supposed to leave until they had received it and once they had received it they didn’t have to wait any longer in Jerusalem.

The reason they would need this that they were waiting for________was that it would enable them to be witnesses of Jesus Christ. This was not just a verbal witness. This was something that would enable them to overcome the world and to overcome the flesh and to overcome the powers of darkness. It would be useless to be launched into a professed “newness of life”, but not have the tools necessary to maintain victory . No new convert is ever exhorted to doubt there walk with God due to the lack of a gift, but if a new convert finds themself in a struggle that they are powerless to overcome( such as the battle against the flesh) what good is a gift going to do them in this situation? They were waiting in Jerusalem to be empowered by the spirit of God, to the end they would be enabled to live a victorious life over the flesh and over sin. To profess that one can/would follow Christ without some kind of empowerment, Well that would be the ultimate “epic fail”.
Modern day Pentecost is drunk on religion and bankrupt on power. They have lost the love for the truth and are attempting to sooth their conscience with whatever “evidence” they can conjure up. They don’t need any power because they have a little intention of overcoming anything where power would be needed. As long as they have some services filled with something to excite the flesh, then they are happy as a lark. Then, when everyone is caught up in a chaotic frenzy, they proclaim “how pleasing this must be to God” and begin to thank him for his great moving in their presence.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by james34

But go and tarry in Jerusalem until……….. and I’m gonna leave that blank and whatever it is that they were supposed to be waiting for they weren’t supposed to leave until they had received it and once they had received it they didn’t have to wait any longer in Jerusalem.

The reason they would need this that they were waiting for________was that it would enable them to be witnesses of Jesus Christ. This was not just a verbal witness. This was something that would enable them to overcome the world and to overcome the flesh and to overcome the powers of darkness. It would be useless to be launched into a professed “newness of life”, but not have the tools necessary to maintain victory . No new convert is ever exhorted to doubt there walk with God due to the lack of a gift, but if a new convert finds themself in a struggle that they are powerless to overcome( such as the battle against the flesh) what good is a gift going to do them in this situation? They were waiting in Jerusalem to be empowered by the spirit of God, to the end they would be enabled to live a victorious life over the flesh and over sin. To profess that one can/would follow Christ without some kind of empowerment, Well that would be the ultimate “epic fail”.


Modern day Pentecost is drunk on religion and bankrupt on power. They have lost the love for the truth and are attempting to sooth their conscience with whatever “evidence” they can conjure up. They don’t need any power because they have a little intention of overcoming anything where power would be needed. As long as they have some services filled with something to excite the flesh, then they are happy as a lark. Then, when everyone is caught up in a chaotic frenzy, they proclaim “how pleasing this must be to God” and begin to thank him for his great moving in their presence.

So, you said that if the right person heard you speaking in tongues they would know what you were saying in tongues? You said they needed "the miracle ear gift?" Do you speak a known language when you speak in tongues. Therefore there would be no need of "the miracle ear gift?"

[diakonos]

Did you just prove that the gift (evidence) and the gift are not one and the same?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Did you just prove that the gift (evidence) and the gift are not one and the same?

Sorry, brother, but I don't understand the question. Please elaborate.