Random Questions Thread

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It was according to faith. (Something I have been trying to explain to Amanah and Esaias to no avail.)

How cute. But you get no prizes for gaslighting.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How cute. But you get no prizes for gaslighting.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How cute. But you get no prizes for gaslighting.

Brother? That wasn’t gaslighting!! More like Q-beaming.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shag

Gal. 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I think there are some(at least in my small circle) that would say that this promise of Abraham does not include the land promise.

Thoughts?

Dispensationalists need to find "physical genealogical Judeans and the rest of the 11 tribal members. Which they cannot do. Also the real-estate issue was taken care of in Ezra and Nehemiah. The temple and wall rebuilt and then finished by the time of Herod. Jesus comes on the scene, tells them that they are NOT children of Abraham. If they were children of Abraham they would of loved Him. Yet, by their actions they are really children of Satan. Hence the though is truly driven home in Galatians 3:29 if you are baptized in Jesus name, filled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues, then, and only then, are you Abraham's seed.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Gal. 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I think there are some(at least in my small circle) that would say that this promise of Abraham does not include the land promise.

Thoughts?

The land promise is part of the Abrahamic covenant. It is still a valid promise. But it has nothing to do with the people over there in the middle east laying claim to it.

Furthermore, the entire planet is part of Abraham's inheritance, which passed to Jacob, to Christ, and to His people, according to Paul:

Romans 4:13 KJV
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The land promise is part of the Abrahamic covenant. It is still a valid promise. But it has nothing to do with the people over there in the middle east laying claim to it.

Furthermore, the entire planet is part of Abraham's inheritance, which passed to Jacob, to Christ, and to His people, according to Paul:

Romans 4:13 KJV
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

What does it have to do with?




Below are the passages that were used (primarily vs 24)when preaching the return to their “deeded” land of Israel, which began in 1948(aside from the claims of miraculous flourishing agriculture)

Ez. 36
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.


What does it mean and when did it happen?

EB mentioned Ezra and Nehemiah…I reckon that will require yet more studying on my part

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

What does it have to do with?

Israel (the Bible Israel, not the one claiming the name these days).

Below are the passages that were used (primarily vs 24)when preaching the return to their “deeded” land of Israel, which began in 1948(aside from the claims of miraculous flourishing agriculture)

The British created the modern state of "Israel" to give the Zionist Jews a political entity of their own. I know that dispensationalists and many others believe the Jews getting a state in 1948 is "Bible prophecy fulfilled" but they are wrong. Israel would not be allowed to return to the land unless they repented of their sins and walked with God. The Jews are clearly not walking with God, but are in the land, and therefore are not the Israel described in the Bible. The modern Jewish state of "Israel" is just another in a long list of nations (gentiles) occupying the land as part of the fulfillment of God's promises to disperse ISRAEL out of the land due to their disobedience.

Ez. 36
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.


What does it mean and when did it happen?

EB mentioned Ezra and Nehemiah…I reckon that will require yet more studying on my part

Sounds to me like a promise of the new covenant (new heart, new spirit, cause to walk in my laws" etc. Attached to that is the reiteration of the Abrahamic ownership of Palestine, it belongs to his descendants by decree of God - as long as they are obedient to the new covenant. His descendants have not by and large been fully obedient to the new covenant, therefore do not have possession of Palestine as a homeland. Instead, it continues to be possessed by others.

Now, for a while, it appeared to be returning to the rightful owners, but was never used as a homeland. And it was promptly given away to the folks currently there.

So as far as I understand things, it is still waiting for its rightful inheritors, who will not only be Israelites but Christians. There are a bunch of inter-related prophecies going on, and no I don't claim to have it all figured out lol. But there are several things happening, on several levels.

There is the original land promise, the national scope of gathering the elect, the remnant of Israel, the future of Jacob and Esau's relationships with each other and with God, and probably a bunch of other things that are all interacting with each other.

But the short answer is whoever is over there now is not true Israel, the actual descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because the requirements for that people's return to that land have not been fully met.

[Tithesmeister]

Verse 14.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The blessing of Abraham came on the Gentiles by the works of the law.

I know we like to be all equity and inclusion, to the point that we think the Gentiles have to follow the same path as the Jews, but this chapter is screaming that the Gentiles are of promise and through faith in Jesus. Not the law.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gentiles were never part of the old covenant (the law). We are of promise, which preceded the law.

[Tithesmeister]

So the context of this passage is not about land. It’s about faith (in salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ) versus the law (which is faith in works or humanity).

Chapter 4 brings it home in a beautiful way. An allegory of Isaac (child of promise God promised a child to Abram and Sarah) versus a child born to Hagar (Ishmael, who was the child of human nature, ie no faith). Ishmael is compared to the law, “which gendereth to bondage “. Isaac is the child of promise (faith in Jesus Christ).

Remember, chapters and verses were added later. We should read the book like a letter, which is what it really is.

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

[Amanah]

The Blessing of Returning (repentance) to God
Deuteronomy 30
30 “Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.