Random Questions Thread

[shag]

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

We may need Esaias to help, but I'll try.

Abraham, the patriarch, received a promise from God (Genesis 12:7, 15:18-21) that the land he stood on would belong to him and his descendants.

The promises to Abraham are ultimately fulfilled in his seed, Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16). Jesus is the ultimate heir of Abraham's promises.

As believers in Jesus Christ, and obeying Acts 2:38, we become part of His body, the Church (1 Corinthians 12:12-13). Through obedient faith in Christ, we are spiritually united with Him and become:
- Children of Abraham (Galatians 3:7, Romans 4:11-12)
- Heirs of the promises made to Abraham (Galatians 3:29, Hebrews 6:12-15)

As heirs, we inherit the promises made to Abraham, including:
- Salvation
- Blessing
- Spiritual land or inheritance (Hebrews 11:8-10, 1 Peter 1:3-4)
- The physical land, as we will reign with Christ on earth during the Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 5:5)

In the Millennial Reign, the meek shall inherit the earth, and we, as joint-heirs with Christ, will reign with Him, restoring and ruling over the earth (Romans 8:17, 2 Timothy 2:12).

In essence, as members of the body of Christ, we are the spiritual descendants of Abraham, and the promises made to him are fulfilled in us through our union with Jesus Christ, including the ultimate inheritance of the earth.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

I’m not an authority on the subject necessarily but God did make a promise to Abraham.

He also made a promise to the Israelites. Basically they had to follow His law to remain in the promised land. Here is a passage that may be relevant to the discussion.

Leviticus 18
[25] And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
[26] Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
[27] (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
[28] That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
[29] For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
[30] Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

I hope this helps.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

As Amanah pointed out, the promise of returning to the land by Israel is conditioned upon their repentance and getting right with God. Abraham has title to the land, but his heirs only get possession if they are in good standing with God. And for 2000 some odd years that means being Christian. Those among Abraham's descendants who reject Christ are cut off from the olive tree ("Israel"). So they would have zero claim to any inheritance except for the curses of disobedience (eg Deut 28).

God DID fulfill that promise to Abraham when his descendants left Egypt and set up in Canaan. And the lease conditions, if you will, are still in effect: be faithful = enjoy the land, be unfaithful = be evicted from the land and others will get to live there.

That being the case, it follows that any people group controlling or possessing Palestine while NOT being faithful to Christ must of necessity be a people group OTHER than the descendants of Abraham, regardless of what they call themselves.

[Apostolic1ness]

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

Due to diaspora, they are not genetically verifiable Judeans.
They are cultural and religious Jews.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0(Baron%201952).

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

The "Jews" in "Israel" are neither Judeans nor are they Israel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

What’s a Jew?

Could you define what an Israeli is, and what a Jew is?
Are all Israelis Jews? If yes, explain why? If no explain why?
Is Ivanka Trump a Jew like Chuck Schumer? If yes, please explain why? If not please explain why?

[Amanah]

- Revelation 21:12-14 (KJV)

"And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel... And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

This passage describes the New Jerusalem, symbolizing the church, with twelve gates representing the twelve tribes of Israel and twelve foundations representing the twelve apostles. This imagery emphasizes the connection between the Old Testament people of God (the twelve tribes) and the New Testament apostles, highlighting the unity and continuity of God's people.

Note that Ephesians 2:20 also mentions the church being built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

- Revelation 21:12-14 (KJV)

"And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel... And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

This passage describes the New Jerusalem, symbolizing the church, with twelve gates representing the twelve tribes of Israel and twelve foundations representing the twelve apostles. This imagery emphasizes the connection between the Old Testament people of God (the twelve tribes) and the New Testament apostles, highlighting the unity and continuity of God's people.

Note that Ephesians 2:20 also mentions the church being built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.

Matthew 19:27-28 KJV
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? [28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:28-30 KJV
Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. [29] And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; [30] That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.