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  #91  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:51 PM
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missdkendall missdkendall is offline
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Ego View Post
That's cause you post like a girl!!!!










Joking Sister!!!!


Don't hurt me....please!
LOL....that's more like it.
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  #92  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:51 PM
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

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Originally Posted by missdkendall View Post
Sure, but that is if the are fighting over me
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  #93  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:53 PM
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missdkendall missdkendall is offline
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
What are you crying about? Did both of them decide they didn't want you after the fight?

Nah... I'm crying cuz I had to choose and couldn't have both like they did in the BIBLE
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  #94  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:55 PM
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

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Originally Posted by missdkendall View Post
Nah... I'm crying cuz I had to choose and couldn't have both like they did in the BIBLE
I know. Sometimes it's hard to choose!!!!
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  #95  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:55 PM
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missdkendall missdkendall is offline
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I know. Sometimes it's hard to choose!!!!
Unfortunatley, I didn't choose so I guess they both decided to take a hike or something. Cuz I sure haven't seen them around LOL
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  #96  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:56 PM
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Ego View Post
War is hell.
but we PCI folk and PAJC folk are brothers and sisters.
We shouldn't be at war with each other.
We are in a war but it's against satan and his armies,
not against each other.


Scripture number 1
"let there be no strife between us for we be brethren"

Scripture number 2
"We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body."

can't we follow the above two Scriptures?
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  #97  
Old 03-29-2008, 01:56 PM
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missdkendall View Post
Unfortunatley, I didn't choose so I guess they both decided to take a hike or something. Cuz I sure haven't seen them around LOL
We better talk about it on Gabby's. I don't think this has anything to do with baptism. Right?
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  #98  
Old 03-29-2008, 02:01 PM
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
but we PCI folk and PAJC folk are brothers and sisters.
We shouldn't be at war with each other.
We are in a war but it's against satan and his armies,
not against each other.


Scripture number 1
"let there be no strife between us for we be brethren"

Scripture number 2
"We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body."

can't we follow the above two Scriptures?
Sam, that is all I am saying.
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  #99  
Old 03-29-2008, 05:21 PM
embonpoint embonpoint is offline
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

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Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
I know there are countless threads on baptism. However, as I lay awake early this morning, these thoughts came to me. I'd thought it would make for interesting discussion.

The History of Baptism:

Baptism was instituted under the law. In Numbers, we see two very distinct uses for water to be used for purification rituals. One was the "waters of separation or death" and the other was the waters of the "mikevah".

The waters of purification we a type of "holy water" which was mixed with the ashes of the Red Heifer to be used by the priest to sprinkle in ceremony over an individual who was ceremonially impure.

Baptism was a ritual designed to cleanse ones body after having mingled with unclean sources. Prior to entering into the Temple, one was to "immerse' in these pools which were erected all across the Temple Mount.

These pools were to be gravity filled only by a natural source. They were built in such a way as to receive rainwater or drainage from a live river.

The purpose of baptism under the law was to "remove" any impurities physically from the body after making contact with unclean elements. A woman was to "immerse" after her period, immersion after touching a dead thing, etc. If one was ceremonially unclean, they were removed from the community. Their eternal salvation was not affected.

Baptism under the Old Covenant never washed away sinful behavior, like robbery, murder, adultery, etc. People were required to bring a sacrifice to the temple for the covering of their sins. Yearly, the high priest was required to offer the blood of the Red Heifer before God and enter into the Holy of Holies and apply that blood for the nation of Israel on the mercy seat.

The Remission of Sins always came from a sacrifice, never baptism.
When someone says "the blood is applied at baptism" or baptism remits sins", they are saying baptism is replacing the sacrifice.

Jesus Christ was the sacrifice that removed the sins of humanity. This is why Satan would have us rely on our works and not on Christ. If we place our faith in baptism and not on Christ, we cannot be saved.

For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. If we disregard the sacrifice of Christ, we might as well start bringing doves and she goats to church and cutting their throats on the altar. Because the Cross is made of "none effect".

Peter would be mortified if he knew a doctrine was created which has replaced Christ on the Cross from his own words. Peter tells us the purpose of baptism...'the answer of a good conscience towards God."

What think ye?
I think that this post is one of the grossest misrepresentations of scripture I have read in sometime and is typical of the posts that cause me to limit my participation on this forum. For some who may be confused by the apparent erudite wisdom of this poster I will post a follow up looking at the “waters of separation.”
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  #100  
Old 03-29-2008, 05:23 PM
embonpoint embonpoint is offline
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Re: Did Baptism Ever Wash Away Sins?

The commandments concerning the Red Heifer and the waters of separation are found in chapter 19 of Numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
The waters of purification we a type of "holy water" which was mixed with the ashes of the Red Heifer to be used by the priest to sprinkle in ceremony over an individual who was ceremonially impure.
Num 19:9

9 And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.
KJV
The scripture states that the “ waters of separation” were for purification for sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
Baptism under the Old Covenant never washed away sinful behavior, like robbery, murder, adultery, etc. People were required to bring a sacrifice to the temple for the covering of their sins. Yearly, the high priest was required to offer the blood of the Red Heifer before God and enter into the Holy of Holies and apply that blood for the nation of Israel on the mercy seat.
The blood from the Red Heifer was not what was sprinkled on the mercy seat once a year. The blood offered before the mercy seat was that of a young bullock for the high priest and that of a ram for the people as found in Leviticus chapter 16.

The blood from the red heifer was sprinkled before the tabernacle apparently when the supply of ashes was depleted and needed to be replenished.

Num 19:4
4 And Eleazar the priest shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times:
KJV

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
The purpose of baptism under the law was to "remove" any impurities physically from the body after making contact with unclean elements. A woman was to "immerse" after her period, immersion after touching a dead thing, etc. If one was ceremonially unclean, they were removed from the community. Their eternal salvation was not affected.

Num 19:13
13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.
KJV

Num 19:20

20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.
KJV

If they were not cleansed by the waters of separation they were cut off from the congregation of Israel for defiling the tabernacle or sanctuary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
The Remission of Sins always came from a sacrifice, never baptism.[/B] When someone says "the blood is applied at baptism" or baptism remits sins", they are saying [B]baptism is replacing the sacrifice.
This misrepresentation is apparently the crux of the argument being made here. Saying that, “the blood is applied at baptism,” is not, "replacing the blood with baptism," anymore than the sprinkling of the blood of the sin offering on the mercy seat replaced the blood of the ram that was offered. What the annual sin offering and cleansing process with the water of separation does demonstrate is that it was not enough for a sacrifice to be made but the blood had to be applied to cover the sin.

The “water of separation” is a beautiful type of how we are washed by the blood in baptism. The blood of the heifer was the offering for the sin, but the individual was unclean until the sacrifice was mixed with the water and applied to the individual.

We cannot mix the physical remains of our sacrifice in the waters of baptism but do mix the sacrifice with the water by invoking the Name of He from whose side flowed blood and water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
Jesus Christ was the sacrifice that removed the sins of humanity. This is why Satan would have us rely on our works and not on Christ. If we place our faith in baptism and not on Christ, we cannot be saved.

For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. If we disregard the sacrifice of Christ, we might as well start bringing doves and she goats to church and cutting their throats on the altar. Because the Cross is made of "none effect".
If we place our faith in Christ and His blood by being baptized our sins are washed away. It is again a misrepresentation to state that being baptized is disregarding the sacrifice when in fact it is appropriating and applying the blood of the sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp View Post
Peter would be mortified if he knew a doctrine was created which has replaced Christ on the Cross from his own words. Peter tells us the purpose of baptism...'the answer of a good conscience towards God."

What think ye?
Aahhh, well at least we can agree as to the fact that Peter would be mortified at the doctrines of baptism being espoused by some in this day.

He does tell us what he thinks of baptism in this setting.

1 Peter 3:20-21

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
KJV

Eight souls were saved by water as we are now saved by baptism.

The scripture also has this to say about those who would twist the doctrine.
2 Tim 3:13-14

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
KJV
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