What to do with Misplaced Apostolics?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I believe that part of the problem is the church model we're using. In our churches today we normally have a pastor who is the primary minister and then some are used here and there in various "positions" or those who find enough favor are allowed to "preach". The majority are expected to show up, listen, shout when told, clap when told, run when told, and give their money when told, and go home. If they start doing anything they are viewed with suspicion and this creates a dynamic that either crosses them up with the pastor or those "chosen few" who fear competing for pulpit time or ministry time.

In the New Testament the church was like a family. There were no church buildings or pulpits, they met in humble homes. When their group got too large they expanded into a larger home or started another gathering in additional homes. Each local congregation was rather small and informal by our standards...15-20 people, though it wasn't unheard of for them to meet in large groups where public facilities permitted. Each house congregation had "elders" not an "elder". These were typically men who had the ministry of pastor in their calling. Together they worked to teach, minister to, and pray for the saints. In their small gatherings they would have a saint or teaching bring forth a teaching for the Scriptures (the OT at the time) and they would expound upon how these things relate to the Christian life. Open dialogue was allowed and discussions would often go on long into the night, as one did with Paul in the book of Acts. All had a chance to teach, all had a chance to offer song, all had a chance to pray or be prayed for. There was "body ministry" with the entire body ministering to eachother. After their time of teaching and discussion they would enjoy "the Lord's Supper", a full meal where all in attendance were fed and shared in fellowship. The central focus of the meal however was when a single loaf of bread was broken in remembrance of Christ's work on the cross and in a spirit if looking forward to his coming again when they would partake in the great marriage supper of the Lamb.

Many are suffering and frustrated in their place and callings because body ministry is at a minimum when the congregation is reduced to "spectator" status.

Home fellowship groups and house churches are therefore the biblical environment where body ministry can occur and should be encouraged.

If someone wishes to be "used of God" they should consider opening their home regularly for fellowshiping neighbors, church friends, and the lost. Informal bible studies should be welcomed or just "talking" about Jesus. Include some good food and something nice to drink and there you are...used of God just like in the time of Acts.

Seek the LORD.

Now...if you're wanting a visible position in the church that's a different story and the issue may be a need for recognition or affirmation.

I could not have said it better myself! I agree with your post completely.

We attend what we call "small church" which is simply 8-12 believers meeting in a home, these groups also meet together after Discipleship Training (Bible Study) on Sunday morning for discussion of the DTS lesson, and a question proposed at the conclusion of DTS. This group takes a cycle of one month a year to oversee the children's classes and to service refreshments between DTS and assembly (worship and preaching).

My wife and I started a day program for special needs adults with our son and two neighbor girls in our home five years ago. That has grown to seventeen SNA with a building of our own, and donations of over 500K, tuition from the families, paid staff, (we are still volunteers) and plans for a residential community. www.coventryreserve.org

If you are called to ministry, seek the Lord for direction and get after it. As soon as the "gifting" becomes evident there will be no lack of opportunity.

That is my two cents worth.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Excellent point, St. Matt.

I haven't read the entire thread, but enough to add my comments:

It seems that there was a time when a mother was asking Jesus to give her sons "positions" in the kingdom. She was lovingly rebuked, because Jesus wasn't about positions in a church, but about ministry in a world.

Too many people want "positions" in the church without enacting the great commission in the world first.

God always rewards people who are already doing what they can be doing to serve Him.

David was anointed King over Israel, but they had to call him in from the pastures where he was "working". (Ironically, even AFTER he had been anointed King, he had to go back to the same grassy knolls and continue tending sheep for a while).

The angels first announced the birth of Jesus to the shepherds who were working - tending their flocks by night, when no one was watching them or lifting them up.

The ones who first saw the Ark of the Covenant come back into Jerusalem after having been held captive by the Philistines were the laborers who were "in the field working".

The best way to get a "position" is to work when no one else is watching, or even working.

Do what you can to fulfill the great commission, and God will set up one and set down another.

Promotion comes not from the east or the west, but from above.

St. Matt & Bro. Phelps,

This is an excellent post. Timing is everything. Many times God calls someone to a particular ministry but time and place have not happened yet. God lets things fall into place in his timing and not ours. Consider Abraham and Sarah

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. There are still very insecure leadership that do not allow God to work as God would if they would let him. God does not penalize the useful people...many times he moves them on. Where one is not successful in one place, they tend to flourish in another.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I could not have said it better myself! I agree with your post completely.

We attend what we call "small church" which is simply 8-12 believers meeting in a home, these groups also meet together after Discipleship Training (Bible Study) on Sunday morning for discussion of the DTS lesson, and a question proposed at the conclusion of DTS. This group takes a cycle of one month a year to oversee the children's classes and to service refreshments between DTS and assembly (worship and preaching).

My wife and I started a day program for special needs adults with our son and two neighbor girls in our home five years ago. That has grown to seventeen SNA with a building of our own, and donations of over 500K, tuition from the families, paid staff, (we are still volunteers) and plans for a residential community. www.coventryreserve.org

If you are called to ministry, seek the Lord for direction and get after it. As soon as the "gifting" becomes evident there will be no lack of opportunity.

That is my two cents worth.

Crakjak,

Good post, I will add that God calls people by the trials he allows to happen to them. You minister to special needs people because you've been through things which gives you insight.

Doesn't matter where I am; store, nail place, work, or church...those that have problems seek me out and want a person to listen, sometimes advise, and pray. I became a Marriage and Family Counselor because of all the things I have gone through and continue to go through. It always results in a person coming to me about the same issues I have faced and gone through victoriously or even in defeat.

At the end of the day...what God has called us to and gifted us with will manifest itself and bring God glory if we keep our eyes on him and not on other people,

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

That is an excellent point. It does not negate the calling to wait until God has worked his work within you. I remember one preacher saying, "the greatest tragedy is a person that is a public success, but a private failure."

It is those private failures that bring us strength for the public victory. Many times those closest to us don't understand and think they know what is best for us, but they have no clue.

The Bible speaks about God's plan and calling separating family members, friends, and colleagues. Abraham had to leave his relatives and go to the place God had promised. He stepped out on faith and was probably ridiculed by his family who felt abandoned...but had he not left and done what God told him...he would not have been the Father of many nations and received the promise.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Praxeas....you did say it.....see below.......

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

OUCH!

I know you were probably trying to be funny, but I don't think it is good to manipulate someone's words or posts to make it seem they were lying. Please don't do that again.

For the record I did NOT say those words.

[AmazingGrace]

Not to Hijack but Crakjak... Awesome post and I knew yall had a place somewhere in Wylie just wasnt sure where... is that by chance the old Monroe property? Right on the curve from St Paul? Looks like yall have something awesome going on there and I would love to see more of it sometime! My biological mother ran a home very similar and a work project for SNA in Mo. until about a year ago. I love this!!!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by AmazingGrace

Not to Hijack but Crakjak... Awesome post and I knew yall had a place somewhere in Wylie just wasnt sure where... is that by chance the old Monroe property? Right on the curve from St Paul? Looks like yall have something awesome going on there and I would love to see more of it sometime! My biological mother ran a home very similar and a work project for SNA in Mo. until about a year ago. I love this!!!

Yes, we are located in St. Paul on the Wylie side of the curve on the east. The Coventry sign is out front, I am not involved in the day to day, my wife, Darlene is the director. The spring session just ended, it will reconvene in July, Tues thru Thurs, you are welcome to come for a visit, you can let Darlene know by calling 214.498.7298. Do you know our friends Bonnie and Frank, I believe the go to your church, we have known them for nearly thirty years?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Crakjak,

Good post, I will add that God calls people by the trials he allows to happen to them. You minister to special needs people because you've been through things which gives you insight.

Doesn't matter where I am; store, nail place, work, or church...those that have problems seek me out and want a person to listen, sometimes advise, and pray. I became a Marriage and Family Counselor because of all the things I have gone through and continue to go through. It always results in a person coming to me about the same issues I have faced and gone through victoriously or even in defeat.

At the end of the day...what God has called us to and gifted us with will manifest itself and bring God glory if we keep our eyes on him and not on other people,

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,

You are correct, God uses what the enemy intended for defeat for glorious victory. Our experience and how we give it to the Lord determines his receiving glory in our weakness. This life has plenty of adversity, but Jesus has given us the victory over every one of them. May His name be praised and lifted up forever!!!

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Yes, we are located in St. Paul on the Wylie side of the curve on the east. The Coventry sign is out front, I am not involved in the day to day, my wife, Darlene is the director. The spring session just ended, it will reconvene in July, Tues thru Thurs, you are welcome to come for a visit, you can let Darlene know by calling 214.498.7298. Do you know our friends Bonnie and Frank, I believe the go to your church, we have known them for nearly thirty years?

I am sure I would if I knew what they looked like this church is so huge half of the ones I havent known all my life... I cant remember their names and I just have to remember by face. I will have to definitely come by and see again when yall open back up! That would be so awesome and thank you.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Excellent point, St. Matt.

I haven't read the entire thread, but enough to add my comments:

It seems that there was a time when a mother was asking Jesus to give her sons "positions" in the kingdom. She was lovingly rebuked, because Jesus wasn't about positions in a church, but about ministry in a world.

Too many people want "positions" in the church without enacting the great commission in the world first.

God always rewards people who are already doing what they can be doing to serve Him.

David was anointed King over Israel, but they had to call him in from the pastures where he was "working". (Ironically, even AFTER he had been anointed King, he had to go back to the same grassy knolls and continue tending sheep for a while).

The angels first announced the birth of Jesus to the shepherds who were working - tending their flocks by night, when no one was watching them or lifting them up.

The ones who first saw the Ark of the Covenant come back into Jerusalem after having been held captive by the Philistines were the laborers who were "in the field working".

The best way to get a "position" is to work when no one else is watching, or even working.

Do what you can to fulfill the great commission, and God will set up one and set down another.

Promotion comes not from the east or the west, but from above.

Jesus' response to the mother of the sons of thunder was, "...he that would be great among you, let him be the servant of all...." That my friend is profound, in Jesus we go up by going down, counter-cultural to all the world knows.