Original Sin/Ancestral Sin

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by oracle

Yes. Adam was an infant though he was a man. Adam had a conscience as an infant, even though he ignorant of his nakedness. He knew that he should not have eaten off the tree of mixed fruit. Praise God.



I believe we are accountable as soon as we sin (ignorant or not) beginning from birth.

Adam was NEVER a infant he was created a man with will and choice. He was innocent BUT he had a will or choice infants have NEITHER!

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

YOU used this scripture and applied it to infants did you not?

I used that scripture using your logic. Your logic is this, your works make you what you are. So, if this is the case, infants are not sinners, and they are also not righteous because they have not done good or evil. Agree?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by oracle

I used that scripture using your logic. Your logic is this, your works make you what you are. So, if this is the case, infants are not sinners, and they are also not righteous because they have not done good or evil. Agree?

They are NEITHER sinners or righteous-saved or lost. They are innocent infants.

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Adam was NEVER a infant he was created a man with will and choice. He was innocent BUT he had a will or choice infants have NEITHER!

Adam was an infant in the body of a man. Lets see bible that proves that infants do not have a will or choice. I don't believe that. Thats not biblical. This is just an area that needs to be examined more. Infants may not know who to respond like we do, but they do have both a will and choice. Infants are not just a bag of bones!

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

They are NEITHER sinners or righteous-saved or lost. They are innocent infants.

Are they in Christ? If not, can they enter the Kingdom outside of being in Christ?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by oracle

Adam was an infant in the body of a man. Lets see bible that proves that infants do not have a will or choice. I don't believe that. Thats not biblical. This is just an area that needs to be examined more. Infants may not know who to respond like we do, but they do have both a will and choice.

You need Bible to prove a infant does not have choice or will?????

Discussion over! Good grief!

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

You need Bible to prove a infant does not have choice or will?????

Discussion over! Good grief!

Sure do, because that is not bible. If a infant does not have will or choice they won't move at all. So much is involved in both will and choice. If the discussion is over, that would mean you don't have proof for your opinion, and thats all you have to say. There is nothing wrong with saying you don't have proof.

[oracle]

[oracle]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't believe anyone is born without a conscience either.

Praise God.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

But neither are they born without a mind.

Amen. Where there is a mind, there is a will.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Yet our minds grow in knowledge and understanding. We aren't born with all knowledge.

Exactly. I believe the same is true with infants. Infants are not born with all knowledge. Even as the infant is not born with all knowledge, likewise the same with Adam who was ignorant of his nakedness. God kept that knowledge from Adam. My point is this, just because you do not have ALL KNOWLEDGE that does not mean you are not accountable for sin. The very moment you sin, you are accountable whether you know it or not, no age limit is excluded.

[oracle]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

A child is not a sinner because a child does not have the knowledge of good and evil and cannot be accountable for its sins. Yes, a child does not need to be born again. God will quicken the child's mortal body just as He will quicken the mortal bodies of all the OT saints who were not filled with the Spirit of God including the thief on the cross.

Q: When you say child, are you speaking of a certain age limit?

Some believe in what is called "age of accountability" which is found nowhere in the Scriptures. As I wrote in a previous post, the very moment you sin, you are accountable whether you know it or not, no age limit is excluded.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Yes, a child does not need to be born again.

Q: Can a child enter the Kingdom without being born again?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God will quicken the child's mortal body just as He will quicken the mortal bodies of all the OT saints who were not filled with the Spirit of God including the thief on the cross.

Who said "all the OT saints" were not filled with the Spirit of God? I say they were, and I got bible to back that up.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God will quicken the child's mortal body just as He will quicken the mortal bodies of all the OT saints who were not filled with the Spirit of God including the thief on the cross.

Concerning the child, that dies outside the Covenant, how shall they be raised without being in Christ? This is why I asked these questions earlier, but got no answer as of yet. Maybe you can answer them. Take your time, I am not looking for a quick answer.

Q: Are infants born saved?
Q: Are infants born into the Covenant?
Q: Do infants need to be born again?
Q: Does the first birth inherit the Kingdom?

The Scripture teaches us "the dead IN CHRIST shall rise first" How does someone, infant or old, rise without being IN CHRIST?