Whaaaaaaatt???? What's happening in Canada??

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I can appreciate what you are saying, but fail to see its application to the issue of "standards."

For example: It is preached that a lady wearing pants is an abomination to God. Then the disclaimer is added that it is not wearing pants, but rebellion that will cause the pant wearing lady to go to hell. The conclusion is that ladies may wear pants, be an abomination to God, and yet go to Heaven if they sincerely disagree.

If a lady wearing pants is an abomination to God, she is an abomination in spite of her opinion, attitude, or circumstances.

In my opinion, it is a contortion of logic to preach that wearing pants is an abomination to God, and then to convolute that position by suggesting that it's not a Heaven or hell issue. If it's an abomination to God, it's a Heaven or hell issue.

Good point ML, and one I totally agree with.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Is this the reincarnation of the Canadian Thread?

If so, it will be a refreshment indeed.

[Thumper]

Well this has been an interesting thread indeed. Thad called me prior to begining this thread to see if I could confirm, deny or illuminate what was happening. Unfortunately I could not. BC is not exactly the epicentre of oneness pentecostalism in Canada and I am not really conected to what is going on in and around the churches in this area much anymore. What I did tell Thad, and perhaps some of you easterners could add to or correct what I'm saying, was that there was an administrative change that took place somewhere in the middle 90's that created the UPC of Canada and made it somehow distinct from the UPCI. Now I stand to be corrected on this but I was told it was primarily just a housekeeping matter to legalize all the funds that were flowing to the UPCI from Canadian churches. That it would in no way changed the relationship that local churches or ministers had with the various ministries and governance of the UPCI.

I guess my question would be what do the people who are driving this idea see being accomplished by it? My perspective, being primarily western, would see it as being a way of keeping funds at home and being utilized for local and national projects that are otherwise ignored by those in Mecca. It was always my feeling that an inordinant amount of money went out but precious little ever came back. FMD not withstanding because those funds are not intended to come back to fund local ministries but things like CFC, SFC, SOC etc were always presented as national ministries to the local church but they never seemed to find their way to our local church or any church that I knew of.

I wonder if there is anyone of our fine Canadian UPC friends who post here who might know how much is raised by these ministries vs. what returns back to the district and local church.

I think it would be a very interesting look. Again my perspective is skewed because I have been in never neverland out here on the coast and the things that take place out east were very rarely given any prominance out here. Also, having been away from the UPC for over 7 years now means that things may have changed out here and maybe they lavishing money on the local assemblies promoting evangelism.

[TrueNorth]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well this has been an interesting thread indeed. Thad called me prior to begining this thread to see if I could confirm, deny or illuminate what was happening. Unfortunately I could not. BC is not exactly the epicentre of oneness pentecostalism in Canada and I am not really conected to what is going on in and around the churches in this area much anymore. What I did tell Thad, and perhaps some of you easterners could add to or correct what I'm saying, was that there was an administrative change that took place somewhere in the middle 90's that created the UPC of Canada and made it somehow distinct from the UPCI. Now I stand to be corrected on this but I was told it was primarily just a housekeeping matter to legalize all the funds that were flowing to the UPCI from Canadian churches. That it would in no way changed the relationship that local churches or ministers had with the various ministries and governance of the UPCI.

I guess my question would be what do the people who are driving this idea see being accomplished by it? My perspective, being primarily western, would see it as being a way of keeping funds at home and being utilized for local and national projects that are otherwise ignored by those in Mecca. It was always my feeling that an inordinant amount of money went out but precious little ever came back. FMD not withstanding because those funds are not intended to come back to fund local ministries but things like CFC, SFC, SOC etc were always presented as national ministries to the local church but they never seemed to find their way to our local church or any church that I knew of.

I wonder if there is anyone of our fine Canadian UPC friends who post here who might know how much is raised by these ministries vs. what returns back to the district and local church.

I think it would be a very interesting look. Again my perspective is skewed because I have been in never neverland out here on the coast and the things that take place out east were very rarely given any prominance out here. Also, having been away from the UPC for over 7 years now means that things may have changed out here and maybe they lavishing money on the local assemblies promoting evangelism.

The UPC of Canada celebrates its 20th anniversary this year. It was set up due to a problem that arose with sending funds to the US that came to light with an audit that took place in Nova Scotia. In order to send funds into the US it was necessary to set up a joint venture agreement between the newly formed UPCC and the UPCI. This satisfied Revenue Canada's concerns about charities sending money out of the country.
It was never intended by its framers to be a separate ministerial or church organization, the intention was a financial framework to facilitate missions etc.
The movement to transform UPCC into a sister organization seems to me to have its epicentre in New West, enough said?
Now for the offerings question. With all of the major offerings 40 or 50%depending on which offering it is stays in the local district to fund the work of the district departments. The rest is sent to the UPCC - which forwards the funds to St. Louis - except for Christmas for Christ which is kept in Canada and along with extra funds from the USA is used to finance Home Missionaries in Canada.
Usually money is not given to local assemblies other than to Home Missions type situations.
Most district type events are subsidized by the Districts portion of the major offerings.

So, now you know.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

The UPC of Canada celebrates its 20th anniversary this year. It was set up due to a problem that arose with sending funds to the US that came to light with an audit that took place in Nova Scotia. In order to send funds into the US it was necessary to set up a joint venture agreement between the newly formed UPCC and the UPCI. This satisfied Revenue Canada's concerns about charities sending money out of the country.
It was never intended by its framers to be a separate ministerial or church organization, the intention was a financial framework to facilitate missions etc.
The movement to transform UPCC into a sister organization seems to me to have its epicentre in New West, enough said?
Now for the offerings question. With all of the major offerings 40 or 50%depending on which offering it is stays in the local district to fund the work of the district departments. The rest is sent to the UPCC - which forwards the funds to St. Louis - except for Christmas for Christ which is kept in Canada and along with extra funds from the USA is used to finance Home Missionaries in Canada.
Usually money is not given to local assemblies other than to Home Missions type situations.
Most district type events are subsidized by the Districts portion of the major offerings.

So, now you know.

Thanks for the update TN. If New Westminster is the Epicentre then I will definately be able to get some up to date information to post. That is not really surprising to hear as PVR has always had a really heavy hand when it came to this kind of thing. He used to push a "DS is the pastor of the pastors" doctrine. I can't really say it was accepted by others in the district but it certainly didn't stop him from trying.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Thanks for the update TN. If New Westminster is the Epicentre then I will definately be able to get some up to date information to post. That is not really surprising to hear as PVR has always had a really heavy hand when it came to this kind of thing. He used to push a "DS is the pastor of the pastors" doctrine. I can't really say it was accepted by others in the district but it certainly didn't stop him from trying.

I've heard personal testimonies about this. Seems like if you start attending that church, if you leave without the pastor's blessing you're excommunicated. Good heavens!!

[TopDog]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I've heard personal testimonies about this. Seems like if you start attending that church, if you leave without the pastor's blessing you're excommunicated. Good heavens!!

I have both heard and observed the same thing......

I have close relatives in that church. My family was connected with it to some extent since Bro. West was pastor waaaaaaay back in the day......

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well this has been an interesting thread indeed. Thad called me prior to begining this thread to see if I could confirm, deny or illuminate what was happening. Unfortunately I could not. BC is not exactly the epicentre of oneness pentecostalism in Canada and I am not really conected to what is going on in and around the churches in this area much anymore. What I did tell Thad, and perhaps some of you easterners could add to or correct what I'm saying, was that there was an administrative change that took place somewhere in the middle 90's that created the UPC of Canada and made it somehow distinct from the UPCI. Now I stand to be corrected on this but I was told it was primarily just a housekeeping matter to legalize all the funds that were flowing to the UPCI from Canadian churches. That it would in no way changed the relationship that local churches or ministers had with the various ministries and governance of the UPCI.

I guess my question would be what do the people who are driving this idea see being accomplished by it? My perspective, being primarily western, would see it as being a way of keeping funds at home and being utilized for local and national projects that are otherwise ignored by those in Mecca. It was always my feeling that an inordinant amount of money went out but precious little ever came back. FMD not withstanding because those funds are not intended to come back to fund local ministries but things like CFC, SFC, SOC etc were always presented as national ministries to the local church but they never seemed to find their way to our local church or any church that I knew of.

I wonder if there is anyone of our fine Canadian UPC friends who post here who might know how much is raised by these ministries vs. what returns back to the district and local church.

I think it would be a very interesting look. Again my perspective is skewed because I have been in never neverland out here on the coast and the things that take place out east were very rarely given any prominance out here. Also, having been away from the UPC for over 7 years now means that things may have changed out here and maybe they lavishing money on the local assemblies promoting evangelism.

When I was in the UPCI our church was constantly raising funds for the various departments. Thousands of dollars were sent to WEC from our church each year. It was difficult to find an opening on the calendar to raise funds for a local cause because you just finished one fund raising campaign for WEC and there was another needing to be promoted.

[TrueNorth]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

When I was in the UPCI our church was constantly raising funds for the various departments. Thousands of dollars were sent to WEC from our church each year. It was difficult to find an opening on the calendar to raise funds for a local cause because you just finished one fund raising campaign for WEC and there was another needing to be promoted.

You think it was bad then??? Seems like every year there is another new offering. I don't think there is a time when an offerin drive isn't in progress.

[Destiny2]

I grew up going to Emmanuel camp meetings in Minto each summer,Rev.S.Steeves was the leader.We female teenagers always had a hat to wear when we went to Bro.Ralstons church,we would never think about going to P.R .without a hat..........