Random Questions Thread

[shag]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Matthew 19:27-28 KJV
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? [28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:28-30 KJV
Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. [29] And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; [30] That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Were these disciples specifically his 12 apostles?
And were they all Jewish Christian’s?


Regarding revelation, 21
Why do 12 foundations represent the 12 apostles instead of representing the 12 tribes of Israel? (Since the 12 tribes of Israel proceeded the 12 apostles I mean)

Is the regeneration absolutely the new heavens and new earth?

Is that also the restitution of all things spoken of in the book of acts?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Were these disciples specifically his 12 apostles?
And were they all Jewish Christian’s?

What do you mean "Jewish"? Technically, they were Galileans. They followed the Sinaitic covenant, so as far as Romans were concerned they were Judeans (religiously). They were certainly Israelites, from whatever tribe(s) they were from.

Regarding revelation, 21
Why do 12 foundations represent the 12 apostles instead of representing the 12 tribes of Israel? (Since the 12 tribes of Israel proceeded the 12 apostles I mean)

The foundation is that upon which something is built, whereas the gates represent not only the entrance but also the "city hall" (the elders would sit in the gates of a city to handle the municipal matters of government). So the New Jerusalem is the Jerusalem of the New Covenant, thus it is built on the foundation of the 12 apostles (ie Christ's ministry and messengers, His doctrine as taught by his apostles). It is the New Jerusalem meaning it is still Jerusalem (as a symbol of Israel, God's covenant people). So the symbolism here is that of Israel in the New Covenant, meaning the 12 tribes with the 12 apostles. Or to put it another way the 12 tribes have entered the new covenant as taught by the 12 apostles of Jesus.

Is the regeneration absolutely the new heavens and new earth?

Not sure what you mean by "absolutely"? The regeneration begins with the resurrection of Christ, and will be culminated in the resurrection unto Life of all God's people. So the 12 apostles are currently judging the 12 tribes today in the sense that Israel has entered the new covenant and thus are under the jurisdiction and leadership of the apostles. In the resurrection, I assume the 12 apostles will have a position of leadership as Jesus said, because according to Jesus there is a hierarchy of rewards in the resurrection.

Is that also the restitution of all things spoken of in the book of acts?

I believe it is, the restitution of all things would mean the restoration of everything to its original intent and order. This would include the restoration of all Israel, the restoration of all mankind, the restoration of nature itself.

[shag]

Luke 13
22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem.
23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’
26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’
27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.
29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.
30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”



“when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.”
&
And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.

Could you please explain this, as it relates to the passages above?

[Amanah]

This is a partial answer

Redemptive history in the book of Hebrews:

https://www.esv.org/resources/esv-gl...58-redemptive/

**

Hebrews 13:14's "non-permanent city" and "continuing city" should be understood in the context of the biblical narrative:

*The "non-permanent city" refers to the earthly Jerusalem, symbolizing the old covenant and its limitations (Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 8:6-13).

*The "continuing city" represents the heavenly Jerusalem, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), which is the ultimate reality, eternal and perfect.

Hebrews 11:16's "city... prepared for them" points to this heavenly Jerusalem, where God dwells with His people.

The kingdom of God in stages:

*The already-not-yet tension: The heavenly city is already present in Christ, but its full realization awaits the eschaton.

*The church's role: As a community of pilgrims, journeying toward the heavenly city, reflecting its values and hope.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

This is a partial answer

Redemptive history in the book of Hebrews:

https://www.esv.org/resources/esv-gl...58-redemptive/

**

Hebrews 13:14's "non-permanent city" and "continuing city" should be understood in the context of the biblical narrative:

*The "non-permanent city" refers to the earthly Jerusalem, symbolizing the old covenant and its limitations (Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 8:6-13).

*The "continuing city" represents the heavenly Jerusalem, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), which is the ultimate reality, eternal and perfect.

Hebrews 11:16's "city... prepared for them" points to this heavenly Jerusalem, where God dwells with His people.

The kingdom of God in stages:

*The already-not-yet tension: The heavenly city is already present in Christ, but its full realization awaits the eschaton.

*The church's role: As a community of pilgrims, journeying toward the heavenly city, reflecting its values and hope.

[Amanah]

Old Covenant

In the Old Testament, a biblical Jew was defined by:

1. Physical descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Genesis 12:3; 15:5).
2. Physical Circumcision (Genesis 17:10-14).
3. Adherence to the Mosaic covenant and law (Exodus 19-24).
4. Membership in the Israelite community.

However, Scripture also emphasizes the importance of:

1. Circumcised heart (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4).
2. Faith and obedience (Genesis 15:6; Exodus 19:5).

Jeremiah 4:4 warns that external circumcision is insufficient without internal heart change.

New Covenant

In the New Testament, Paul redefines what it means to be a Jew:

Romans 2:28-29 ESV
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Here, Paul emphasizes:

1. Spiritual circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12).
2. Faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:26-29).
3. New covenant membership (Acts 2, Hebrews 8:6-13).

Continuity and Change

Physical descent and external circumcision were important in the Old Covenant, the New Covenant emphasizes spiritual realities:

1. Faith and obedience (same emphasis as Old Testament).
2. Internal heart change (same emphasis as Jeremiah 4:4).
3. Spiritual circumcision (Acts 2, Colossians 2:11-12).

The definition of a biblical Jew has shifted from external markers to internal, spiritual realities.

Did Biblical Jews Cease to Exist?

In one sense, yes. The Old Covenant, ethnic-based understanding of Jewish identity has given way to a New Covenant, spiritually-based understanding.

In another sense, no. Paul still identifies himself as a Jew (Acts 21:39; Romans 11:1)

However, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been transcended in Christ (Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:14).

Relationship to Romans 2:28

Romans 2:28 redefines what it means to be a Jew, emphasizing spiritual circumcision and inward faith. This definition:

1. Builds upon Old Testament emphasis on circumcised heart.
2. Transcends external markers.
3. Applies to all Acts 2 believers, regardless of ethnicity.

[shag]

TY Amanah


So if Paul redefined what it means to be a Jew, are you saying that everyone that is circumcised of the heart as in Romans 228, (including gentiles) is the new def. of a Jew? Like the body of Christ are now (true) Jews?

I’m having a bit of trouble with the idea that the biblical definition of a Jew has been redefined(changed).

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

TY Amanah


So if Paul redefined what it means to be a Jew, are you saying that everyone that is circumcised of the heart as in Romans 228, (including gentiles) is the new def. of a Jew? Like the body of Christ are now (true) Jews?

I’m having a bit of trouble with the idea that the biblical definition of a Jew has been redefined.

Israel is another way of saying "the church" (Galatians 6:16; Romans 9:6-8). The church of the old covenant (Israel) has been expanded to include all nations (Ephesians 2:11-22).

At Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out (Acts 2), Israel (the church) was redefined to include believers from all nations (Acts 2:5-47).

The lineage of Father Abraham is no longer restricted to physical Jews (as in the old covenant, Romans 4:13-18) but now includes spiritual Jews (Israel, the church, Galatians 3:26-29; Romans 2:28-29).

[Amanah]

Genealogy isn't the point. You either need to be grafted in or grafted back into the olive tree.

Romans 11:17-24 ESV
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

[Amanah]

Maybe this will help as further explanation

New Covenant:

1. Jeremiah 31:31-34: I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
2. Hebrews 8:8-12: Quoting Jeremiah 31, emphasizing the new covenant.

Integration of Israel with Gentiles:

1. Hosea 1:10: "In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called children of the living God."
2. Ephesians 2:11-22: Gentiles brought near through Christ, becoming one body with Israel.
3. Galatians 3:26-29: No distinction between Jew and Gentile in Christ.

Israel's Identity:

1. Romans 9:6-8: Not all physical descendants of Israel are true Israel.
2. Romans 2:28-29: True Jew/Israelite defined by faith, not ethnicity.
3. Galatians 3:7: Those of faith are Abraham's offspring (spiritual Israel).

Gentiles Grafted In:

1. Romans 11:17-24: Gentiles grafted into the olive tree (Israel).
2. Ephesians 2:19: Gentiles now fellow citizens with Israel.

The new covenant encompasses both Judah (physical descendants) and Israel (now largely integrated with Gentiles, with a focus on spiritual identity).

But currently, both Judeans and Israelites are integrated into the gentiles.