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Old 11-03-2022, 02:41 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Also, the word forgive comes from the German roots of Old English, whereas the word remit or remission comes from the Latin roots of the Norman-French influence on English. Remit means to send away or give back, with re- having the force of away or back. The Germanic forgive has the same etymological meaning, for- in the older sense of back, and give meaning to give or to send to something or someone.

See this:

forgive (v.)
Old English forgiefan "give, grant, allow; remit (a debt), pardon (an offense)," also "give up" and "give in marriage" (past tense forgeaf, past participle forgifen); from for-, here probably "completely," + giefan "to give" (from PIE root *ghabh- "to give or receive").

The sense of "to give up desire or power to punish" (late Old English) is from use of such a compound as a Germanic loan-translation of Vulgar Latin *perdonare (Old Saxon fargeban, Dutch vergeven, German vergeben "to forgive," Gothic fragiban "to grant;" and see pardon (n.)). Related: Forgave; forgiven; forgiving.

Entries linking to forgive
for-
prefix usually meaning "away, opposite, completely," from Old English for-, indicating loss or destruction, but in other cases completion, and used as well with intensive or pejorative force, from Proto-Germanic *fur "before, in" (source also of Old Norse for-, Swedish för-, Dutch ver-, Old High German fir-, German ver-); from PIE *pr-, from root *per- (1) "forward," hence "in front of, before, toward, near, against."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/forgive

So the two words are, in fact, grammatically or linguistically equivalent.
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Old 11-03-2022, 02:44 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Discussion of remit and its etymology: https://www.etymonline.com/word/remi...online_v_10408

Key notice:

"late 14c., remitten, "to forgive, pardon," from Latin remittere "send back, slacken, let go back, abate," from re- "back" (see re-) + mittere "to send" (see mission). Secondary senses predominate in English.
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Old 11-03-2022, 02:48 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Interesting links to "pardon":

pardon (n.)
c. 1300, pardoun, "papal indulgence, forgiveness of sins or wrongdoing," from Old French pardon, from pardoner "to grant; forgive" (11c., Modern French pardonner), "to grant, forgive," and directly from Medieval Latin perdonum, from Vulgar Latin *perdonare "to give wholeheartedly, to remit," from Latin per "through, thoroughly" (from PIE root *per- (1) "forward," hence "through") + donare "give as a gift," from donum "gift," from PIE *donum "gift," from root *do- "to give."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/pard...online_v_44937
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Old 11-03-2022, 02:50 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

So, forgive, remit, and pardon are etymological synonyms. Forgive is the Germanic form of both remit and pardon, when looking at the Indo-European origins of all three words.
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Old 11-03-2022, 06:54 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Btw, if a new babe in Christ explores their way to AFF and we squash them intellectually with our perfect hermeneutical interpretation, and somehow damage their faith, I would fear that it may not go so well in eternity.

“Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.”
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Old 11-03-2022, 11:36 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
Btw, if a new babe in Christ explores their way to AFF and we squash them intellectually with our perfect hermeneutical interpretation, and somehow damage their faith, I would fear that it may not go so well in eternity.

“Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.”
You cannot damage someone's faith with truth.
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Old 11-03-2022, 11:56 AM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
You cannot damage someone's faith with truth.
Truth must always be spoken in love an not from a rude, condescending attitude, with the intent of simply winning a debate over scripure. IMO.

Colossians 4:6
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

If someone rejects the truth of the gospel we should shake the dust off. We don’t have to cast our pearls before the swine. But, if we are having open dialogue with someone then kindness goes much further.
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Old 11-03-2022, 08:35 PM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

The best way to understand the phrase in Acts 2:38 is to see how it is used in other passages:

In Acts 2:38, the Greek phrase:

eis aphesin ton hamartion

We can compare this to Matthew 26:28:

eis aphesin hamartion

Mark 1:4:

eis aphesin hamartion

Luke 1:77:

aphesei hamartion

Luke 3:3:

eis aphesin hamartion

Luke 24:47:

eis aphesin hamartion

Acts 5:31:

kai aphesin hamartion

Acts 10:43:

aphesin hamartion

Acts 13:38:

aphesin hamartion

Acts 26:18:

autous aphesin hamartion

Colossians 1:14:

ten aphesin ton hamartion

Of key importance is the way the author of Luke-Acts uses the phrase, since such a use will likely be similar in scope and meaning, sic passim.
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Old 11-03-2022, 08:44 PM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Regarding when remission occurs, for those who argue that it is before baptism, but after repentance, and that the preposition eis therefore means because of, or in regards to, then they must prove when any of the people in Acts 2 who listened to Simon Peter's sermon actually received forgiveness.

Was it when they were "pricked in their hearts" and cried out "men and brethren, what shall we do?"?

If so, then why did Simon Peter tell them they still needed to repent and be baptized?

If the pricking of their hearts and the demand to be told how to respond to Simon Peter's preaching was indicative of their repentance, Simon Peter should not have told them they needed to repent. Instead, Acts 2:38 should read "Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."

But that's not how it reads. Simon started with repentance, which indicates that as far as he was concerned, the respondents had not repented, even while they were pricked in their hearts and demanding instruction.

As far as Simon was concerned, if they did not come forward and be baptized, there was no repentance.

For, Acts 2:41 reads, "then they that gladly received his word were baptized'. It does not read, "then they that gladly received his word repented". Their repentance is presumed as a prerequisite to their baptism.

It is therefore clear that without a baptism following the pricking of the heart and a desire to know what to do, there is no repentance, and therefore, no remission of sins.

Remission of sins therefore, takes place in baptism, and not before, as evidence for repentance.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 11-03-2022 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 11-03-2022, 09:42 PM
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Regarding when remission occurs, for those who argue that it is before baptism, but after repentance, and that the preposition eis therefore means because of, or in regards to, then they must prove when any of the people in Acts 2 who listened to Simon Peter's sermon actually received forgiveness.

Was it when they were "pricked in their hearts" and cried out "men and brethren, what shall we do?"?

If so, then why did Simon Peter tell them they still needed to repent and be baptized?

If the pricking of their hearts and the demand to be told how to respond to Simon Peter's preaching was indicative of their repentance, Simon Peter should not have told them they needed to repent. Instead, Acts 2:38 should read "Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."

But that's not how it reads. Simon started with repentance, which indicates that as far as he was concerned, the respondents had not repented, even while they were pricked in their hearts and demanding instruction.

As far as Simon was concerned, if they did not come forward and be baptized, there was no repentance.

For, Acts 2:41 reads, "then they that gladly received his word were baptized'. It does not read, "then they that gladly received his word repented". Their repentance is presumed as a prerequisite to their baptism.

It is therefore clear that without a baptism following the pricking of the heart and a desire to know what to do, there is no repentance, and therefore, no remission of sins.

Remission of sins therefore, takes place in baptism, and not before, as evidence for repentance.
So one can be Spirit baptized into the body of Christ without receiving forgiveness of sins? I guess God doesn’t have to have complete control to fill someone with his Spirit after all.



13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit
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Last edited by james34; 11-03-2022 at 09:44 PM.
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