Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #111  
Old 08-04-2024, 02:56 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Do you realize they also told them to observe no such thing as loving your neighbour? Or to not steal? Therefore ACCORDING TO YOUR REASONING, you and I don't have to observe those things either. Just those four and no more.

Oh, wait...

James was telling gentiles to keep 4 commands out of the law. He was putting them under the law, because those 4 things were old testament, part of the old covenant!

Oops.

Might need to rethink your thought process a wee bit.
I guess he chose not to?
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 08-04-2024, 03:05 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
If I recall correctly, there are a sum total of four laws from the Old Covenant that are to be observed by Gentiles.
Does not include:

Love God.
Love your neighbour.
Do not steal.
Do not bear false witness.
Do not murder.
Do not covet.
Do not crossdress.
Do not oppress the widow, orphans, or sojourners.
Only Levites get the tithe.
The tithe cannot be cash or money.

Etc etc etc.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 08-04-2024, 03:14 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,995
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Does not include:

Love God.
Love your neighbour.
Do not steal.
Do not bear false witness.
Do not murder.
Do not covet.
Do not crossdress.
Do not oppress the widow, orphans, or sojourners.
Only Levites get the tithe.
The tithe cannot be cash or money.

Etc etc etc.
Do you go to Jerusalem to give your tithe?

[11] Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

If not you are not following the commandment of God.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 08-04-2024, 03:17 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,995
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

I could do this all day and not run out of ways you are disobeying the law.

You’re supposed to appear “before the Lord” in Jerusalem. Oh wait, the temple has been destroyed. That may be problematic!
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 08-04-2024, 05:01 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
I could do this all day and not run out of ways you are disobeying the law.

You’re supposed to appear “before the Lord” in Jerusalem. Oh wait, the temple has been destroyed. That may be problematic!
Oh wait, you've been refuted at every step AND you have provided no answer to the clear proofs that your ideas are NONSENSICAL, yet you are certain you "can do this all day".

And I agree. You can do this all day. In fact, you have pretty much shown that you WILL do this all day and twice on Sunday. And what is "this" that you are so proud of being able and willing to do?

Why, it is being soundly refuted everytime you post.

So do carry on.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 08-04-2024, 05:03 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Do you go to Jerusalem to give your tithe?

[11] Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

If not you are not following the commandment of God.
If you teach a pastor can't collect a tithe of every member's paycheck each week you are disregarding the decision of the church in Acts 15. Why don't you practice what you preach?
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 08-04-2024, 06:29 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,194
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

So Esaias,
Where did James get the idea of Acts 15:29 for the Gentiles? I believe you were going to explain your thoughts. Did I miss that post?
__________________
"The entirety of Your word is truth" (Ps 119:160)
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 08-04-2024, 06:34 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Now that we've cleared out the heckler's silliness, we can get down to brass tacks.

Deuteronomy 8:1-3 KJV
All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers. [2] And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. [3] And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

Israel was given an object lesson. The lesson was not "by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth Israelites live". No, it was "that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live."

Law, specifically moral law, is a rule for the conduct of moral agents. If man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, then every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God is moral law, for it is the stated rule which is to govern human conduct.

The whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the word of God. The Scriptures are the words of God which have been divinely preserved to us. Therefore, the whole Bible is the whole law of God. The whole Bible is the divinely inspired, divinely delivered, and divinely preserved moral law of God. It is that by which man doth live.

This was not meant only for Israel. The lesson was that MAN doth live by every word of God. Not just Jews, not just Israelites, not just people under the old covenant. But MAN in general. This lesson was given to Israel, but it is a lesson to be learned by all mankind, it applies to all mankind.

1 Corinthians 10:1-6 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. [5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1 Corinthians 10:11 KJV
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

James teaches essentially the same thing, that THE BIBLE is the moral law of God:

James 1:22-25 KJV
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Here, the WORD is called "the perfect LAW of liberty".

James 2:8 KJV
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Here the scripture is called "the royal law". It is law because it is designed to govern behaviour. It is royal because it is promulgated by the King, and there is no higher legislation.

James 2:9-11 KJV
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Here, the unity of the law of God is affirmed. One cannot pick and choose which part or parts of the law of God - the Holy Bible - one should or must obey. The whole thing is a united whole. Obeying God in one area, while disobeying God in another area, means one is still disobedient to God! If you don't murder, but you rob convenience stores, you are still a criminal!

James 2:12-13 KJV
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. [13] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Here the "law of liberty" is once again mentioned. As we saw earlier, it is the WORD, the MESSAGE FROM GOD. It brings liberty! Liberty from SIN, and liberty from condemnation.

It does NOT bring liberty from God, freedom from being obliged to obey God, liberty to do as you please, however "pious" and religious one may be pleased to act.

Are there some things not applicable? Sure.

If a woman is married, and she runs off and marries another guy, she (and her beau) have committed adultery. She is forbidden to marry anyone. Why? Because she is already married! But if her husband dies, she is (according to God's law) free to marry. She is free from the law of her (previous but now deceased) husband.

Is she free from God's moral law? NO. She is able to remarry BECAUSE of God's law being in effect. The law governed two separate conditions, one being in a state of marriage, and the other being in a state of widowhood. The conditions being changed, the rule or direction of the law changes as well.

Israel was required to gather 3 times a year and make offerings at the Temple. Twice the Temple was obliterated, gone. There being no Temple, the conditions having changed, the operation of the law must necessarily change as well:

John 4:19-24 KJV
The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. [20] Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. [21] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was prophesying a change in condition regarding where worship was to take place. The Temple would soon be destroyed. God was looking for spiritual worship, not merely liturgical actions in a particular location. As David said:

Psalm 40:6-8 KJV
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. [7] Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, [8] I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

David understood the law of God was the WILL OF GOD. He understood that the liturgical system of burnt offerings etc was NOT the purpose of God for man except as a stopgap measure addressing disobedience. Rather God wanted OBEDIENCE.

Hosea says the same thing:

Hosea 6:6 KJV
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

And Paul explains thus:

Hebrews 10:5-10 KJV
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: [6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When he says he takes away the law, does he mean the will of God? The moral law of God? The whole Bible (every word of God)? Of course not. The law taken away is the Levitical sacrificial system, replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And thus, the old COVENANT is replaced by the NEW COVENANT:

Hebrews 8:7-13 KJV
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Has the moral law of God been "done away with"? Of course not. The old COVENANTAL SYSTEM OF WORSHIP has been done away with. The new covenant includes the writing of God's laws upon the hearts of His people. The WILL OF GOD FOR MANKIND hasn't changed, rather the ADMINISTRATIVE MECHANISM of God's will has changed.

Hope this helps somebody.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf


Last edited by Esaias; 08-04-2024 at 06:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 08-04-2024, 06:36 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,814
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
So Esaias,
Where did James get the idea of Acts 15:29 for the Gentiles? I believe you were going to explain your thoughts. Did I miss that post?
Actually I was asking that question, hoping you could shed some light on how they came to that decision. I think Amanah may have provided some information on it, though
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 08-04-2024, 07:00 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,194
Re: Sabbath Keeping Denominations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Actually I was asking that question, hoping you could shed some light on how they came to that decision. I think Amanah may have provided some information on it, though
Just a thought, I may be wrong.

[Exo 12:48 NKJV] 48 "And when a stranger dwells with you [and wants] to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.

The "stranger" where people apparently not required to keep all the Jewish traditions but could live among the Jews in Israel, and still be uncircumcised. They were subject to some of the law of Moses, but others were voluntary.

Among the things that they were subject to while living in the land of Israel we see:

[Lev 17:12 NKJV] 12 "Therefore I said to the children of Israel, 'No one among you shall eat blood, nor shall any stranger who dwells among you eat blood.'

(referring to sexual inmorality) [Lev 18:26 NKJV] 26 'You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit [any] of these abominations, [either] any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you

They were also required to do things already contained in the ten commandments, including sabbath keeping if they were within the gates (inside a city?) Exo 20:10, Lev 16:29. They were also required to be under the same judgments (crime, civil litigation, etc...) as the rest of the Israelites (basically, fair treatment).

It is like these are things someone as an uncircumcised stranger (Gentiles) living in the Promise land must keep. Just search for "stranger" in the Pentateuch and see the context of the verse, and you will see some interesting things that could explain Acts 15:29.
__________________
"The entirety of Your word is truth" (Ps 119:160)

Last edited by coksiw; 08-04-2024 at 07:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping the Sabbath was only for Israelites/Jews KeptByTheWord Fellowship Hall 62 03-03-2015 04:15 PM
Denominations Dedicated Mind Fellowship Hall 8 07-16-2011 10:46 PM
Changing Denominations Rhoni Fellowship Hall 653 07-14-2009 02:38 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.