Adultery vs Fornication

[Originalist]

New International Version
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

New Living Translation
And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful. ”

English Standard Version
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Berean Study Bible
Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.”

Berean Literal Bible
And I say to you that whoever shall divorce his wife except for sexual immorality, and shall marry another, commits adultery."

New American Standard Bible
"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

King James Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Christian Standard Bible
I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery."

Contemporary English Version
I say if your wife has not committed some terrible sexual sin, you must not divorce her to marry someone else. If you do, you are unfaithful."

Good News Translation
I tell you, then, that any man who divorces his wife for any cause other than her unfaithfulness, commits adultery if he marries some other woman."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

International Standard Version
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

NET Bible
Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery."

New Heart English Bible
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. And he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But I say to you, “Whoever divorces his wife apart from adultery and will take another, commits adultery, and whoever will take her who is divorced commits adultery.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I can guarantee that whoever divorces his wife for any reason other than her unfaithfulness is committing adultery if he marries another woman."

New American Standard 1977
“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication and shall marry another, commits adultery, and whosoever marries her that is put away commits adultery.

King James 2000 Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away does commit adultery.

American King James Version
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery.

American Standard Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

Darby Bible Translation
But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, not for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and he who marries one put away commits adultery.

English Revised Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for lewdness, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoever marrieth her who is put away, committeth adultery.

Weymouth New Testament
And I tell you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except her unfaithfulness, and marries another woman, commits adultery."

World English Bible
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery."

Young's Literal Translation
'And I say to you, that, whoever may put away his wife, if not for whoredom, and may marry another, doth commit adultery; and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.'

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Originalist

New International Version ..'

It looks like you are trying to demonstrate that if you use the modern versions, you will be hopelessly confused.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

It looks like you are trying to demonstrate that if you use the modern versions, you will be hopelessly confused.

Nope. They actually clear up any supposed confusion.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

It looks like you are trying to demonstrate that if you use the modern versions, you will be hopelessly confused.

which you use Steven?
(i use for the Old Testament one Greek translation (based on MS ,the same source of KJV) but also i have the LXX to compare.)

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by peter83

Ηι brother. I agree to all waht you said except the last.
The exception clause does not cover adultery:
For Jesus spoke to Jews and we know that adultery was not the reason for divorce but the reason to stone until death!
The exception clause does not cover fornication before marriage
For the law for one who founds his wife was not a virgin had to stone her to death. (however i see what Joseph wanted to do with Mary and i keep an eye to that point)
Now we have left only to the literal meaning of fornication is any unlawful relationship or premarital sex :
The relasionship between this man at Corinth with the wife of his father (propably his dad were dead) it was not recognized as a marriage but as a fornication :1 Cor.5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife
An other example is that fornication ids not the exception clause for adultery (which is 2nd marriage) but the opoisite! Marriage is the exception clause for fornication [I] 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.[/I]
So every man that putts away his wife is causing her to commit adultery and the man who marry her that is putted away commits adultery to her husband and if that man marry another woman commits adultery too (to her).
But to the above example (the situation to the 1 Cor 5:1) he must put away his woman because is fornication and not a lawful marriage and of course if he repents and in the future want to marry a woman ,he will not be adulterous because he was never married.
And also if a couple living together but not married (like chapter 7:2) there are two things to do :1) is to seperate one from the other and 2) is not marry her.
the only reason for a man to put away his woman is unlawful (non recognized,not accepted) marriage which is fornication and that is why they can marry in the future, because they were never married .
And the second aspect of fornication is two young people who are living together but not married. (like today we have many of them!)

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. My point is that there is no "exception clause". lol

What we think is an "exception clause" is simply a Matthean reference to Jewish custom in relation to terminating a betrothal, hence the sin being "fornication". Joseph's desire to put away Mary privily during their betrothal is an example of this custom.

Without this reference to the Jewish manner of putting away during the betrothal period upon discovery of sexual unfaithfulness (which is only found in Matthew), the teaching of Jesus would simply read as found in Mark and Luke:

Mark 10:11-12
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

No exception clause.

Besides, the only reason people want an exception clause is to justify a second (sometimes a third or even fourth) remarriage. They would rather justify the second marriage instead of confessing their sin and weakness while humbly seeking God's mercy. This way they get a traditional church wedding and they can smile and pretend that they're in God's perfect will for all the photos. And if anyone asks about anyone having been married before, the bride or the groom can wink and say, "Their first cheated. So, it's all good."

God's will is that estranged spouses reconcile and forgive one another of all wrong doing.

Divorce and remarriage to another is not God's will.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. My point is that there is no "exception clause". lol

What we think is an "exception clause" is simply a Matthean reference to Jewish custom in relation to terminating a betrothal, hence the sin being "fornication". Joseph's desire to put away Mary privily during their betrothal is an example.

Without this reference to the Jewish manner of putting away during the betrothal period (which is only found in Matthew), the teaching of Jesus would simply read as found in Mark and Luke:

Mark 10:11-12
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18

absolutely!

amen!

Besides, the only reason people want an exception clause is to justify remarriage, instead of humbly confessing the sin and seeking God's mercy. This way they get a traditional church wedding and can smile and pretend that they're in God's perfect will for all the photos.

well...i dont know then to whom i wanted to write got confused.

No exception clause. Besides, the only reason people want an exception clause is to justify remarriage, instead of humbly confessing the sin and seeking God's mercy. This way they get a traditional church wedding and can smile and pretend that they're in God's perfect will for all the photos

Can be any better than the clear simple Words of our Lord ?!
They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
but
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

May the Lord increases our love for Truth more and more.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. My point is that there is no "exception clause". lol

What we think is an "exception clause" is simply a Matthean reference to Jewish custom in relation to terminating a betrothal, hence the sin being "fornication". Joseph's desire to put away Mary privily during their betrothal is an example of this custom.

Without this reference to the Jewish manner of putting away during the betrothal period upon discovery of sexual unfaithfulness (which is only found in Matthew), the teaching of Jesus would simply read as found in Mark and Luke:

Mark 10:11-12
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

No exception clause.

Besides, the only reason people want an exception clause is to justify a second (sometimes a third or even fourth) remarriage. They would rather justify the second marriage instead of confessing their sin and weakness while humbly seeking God's mercy. This way they get a traditional church wedding and they can smile and pretend that they're in God's perfect will for all the photos. And if anyone asks about anyone having been married before, the bride or the groom can wink and say, "Their first cheated. So, it's all good."

God's will is that estranged spouses reconcile and forgive one another of all wrong doing.

Divorce and remarriage to another is not God's will.

Jesus clearly lists marital unfaithfulness as a justification for divorce. Why even bother to divorce them if they are soon going to be dead anyway? Thus, there is more to this statement than meets the eye. Some men were probably merciful enough not to rat-out their wife to keep her from being killed. But whatever ended up happening to the cheating woman, the context here is indeed divorcing for unfaithfulness.



But here is a greater dilemma. Some do indeed adhere to the "betrothal" theory. The problem is, I do not know a single church that would condone a divorce for this reason since the wife's actions were committed before the wedding. This would not be considered adultery. I know a minister this happened to. His wife had an STD from her secret lover and transmitted it to this brother on their wedding night. He appealed to his district board that he married under false pretenses but they would not consider it as adultery.

Another problem with the betrothal theory is that it would make breaking an engagement into sin if it was done for some other reason than catching your betrothed in sexual sin. This is why I feel we err as Gentile Christians when we look to the Jewish Law espoused by Christ concerning marriage as a guide for New Testament Christianity. If we are going to go by part of the Law, we must obey all of it in regards to marriage including Deut. 24's prohibition against reunited with ex-spouses who remarried.

Our guide is I Corinthians 7 which is very simple...... Christians should not initiate divorce but abide alone or reconcile if a divorce occurs. Even then there will be times that reunification is impossible. What happens then is not specified by Paul. Second, Christians married to unbelievers are not under the same moral obligations as the former group mentioned above if they are abandoned by the unbelieving spouse.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

You said that putting away is not a divorce (like Isaiah). So why now you think Jesus justified divorce if fornication happens? Also the adulterus women were killed and not divorced. So mayby fornication is the only relationship you should put away ?

He did not said that this was adultery! This means fornication (but Jews were commanded them to stone the woman that she was found not virgin ,because of fornication) .Adultery happens only when a woman or man cheat to his/her lawful mate. That is why the law named this woman fornicator .Because that means ,she had relationships with men without be married and before the wedding.
This was the reason Joseph wanted to pout away Mary ,when she found pregnant
Deut.22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. play the whore =fornicated in the text.
Deut.22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

The law said you should swear to the name of the Lord, yet Jesus said you should not swear atoll.
You should not commit adultery yet Jesus said even if you look with last you commit adultery.
you should kill your enemy..yet Jesus said Love your enemies.
You should not murder..yet Jesus said You go to hell if you hate your brother.
For the Marriage if a man puts away his wife "causing her to commit adultery" and he who marries her "commits adultery" and if he marrys another "he commits adultery to her" (Matt.5,19,)
Now to this what you said ,it was only for the "hardeness of their hearts"
Now Jesus said:
1 Cor.7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Jesus commanded them that are married to not divorce but if they divorce to stay single or reconcile with her ex. This should not contradict what Jesus said at Matthew,Mark and Luke :whosoever put away his wife cusing her to commit adultery and whosoever put away his wife and married another commits adultery. So the word "and if they depart let them remain unmarried" fits only to situation were the inocent part is waiting for the guilty to repent or happens something hardcore like Adultery or danger to stay with him. otherwise if he.she depart for other reason is guilty.
The only way to be loosed by your wife is death "7:19 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. "
Now Paul is not and can not say anything different for the Christians who are married to non-Christians , He specifically say "No me but the Lord commands" wile for the rest he said "to the rest i say ,not the Lord" .So his ipinion is not contradict the groundwork which allready Jesus put "to the married i command,not me but the Lord" . In this situation of the Christian leaves his wife then is causing her to commit adultery ,for this reason Paul sauggest that yoiu stay with your non-Chrsitan spouse . But if the non-believer doeparts (they have hard hearts!) then you are not guilty!! But "O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Amen, brother! May the Lord gives you His fear! (please before you try to answer, check the scriptures for yourself without any help from outside and also set aside your opinion and just let be You and the Lord)

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

Amen, brother! May the Lord gives you His fear! (please before you try to answer, check the scriptures for yourself without any help from outside and also set aside your opinion and just let be You and the Lord)

I don't live in "fear" that does not come from the Lord as you do. You completely missed the point of my previous post. Matthew 19 is not groundwork for the church. If you continue to insist that it is, then you must obey Deut 24 as well. Furthermore, you never really elaborated on whether a brother like the one I mentioned is free to remarry , nor did you really say if one can marry another after breaking a betrothal that was broken over something other than sexual immorality. All you do is write an emotionally driven response and underline everything, making it a chore to read. Try appealing to emotion less in your responses.

Bottom line questions:


Can a brother remarry if he divorces his betrothed after finding her to be full of STD's on their wedding night?


Is it a sin to remarry if one breaks an engagement for any reason other than sexual sin? (For example, a girl hands an engagement ring back to a guy because she thinks he is too immature to marry)


Can you answer these questions in a normal manner?

You said that putting away is not a divorce (like Isaiah). So why now you think Jesus justified divorce if fornication happens? Also the adulterous women were killed and not divorced. So mayby fornication is the only relationship you should put away ?

I maintain that Jesus was speaking about marital unfaithfulness after the wedding, even years later. The context is putting away one's WIFE. I inserted my comments in my last thread to challenge the betrothal theory, not to condone it. If you would come down out of the emotional cloud-bank you're riding on, you might see that.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. My point is that there is no "exception clause". lol

What we think is an "exception clause" is simply a Matthean reference to Jewish custom in relation to terminating a betrothal, hence the sin being "fornication". Joseph's desire to put away Mary privily during their betrothal is an example of this custom.

If the above is the case, then would it be sin for a man to divorce and remarry if on his wedding night he finds that his betrothed was full of STD's from another man? Or are we gong to throw out that possibility because we are so determined not to allow remarriage? Peter38 won't answer this question.

Without this reference to the Jewish manner of putting away during the betrothal period upon discovery of sexual unfaithfulness (which is only found in Matthew), the teaching of Jesus would simply read as found in Mark and Luke:

Mark 10:11-12
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

No exception clause.

Besides, the only reason people want an exception clause is to justify a second (sometimes a third or even fourth) remarriage.

Wow, what a judgmental thing to say. You have no right or way to judge others' motives. Many scholars feel the exception clause is valid based on its own merits.

They would rather justify the second marriage instead of confessing their sin and weakness while humbly seeking God's mercy. This way they get a traditional church wedding and they can smile and pretend that they're in God's perfect will for all the photos. And if anyone asks about anyone having been married before, the bride or the groom can wink and say, "Their first cheated. So, it's all good."

God's will is that estranged spouses reconcile and forgive one another of all wrong doing.

Divorce and remarriage to another is not God's will.