The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[Sister Alvear]

I look forward to the eternal Sabbat!

[Trouvere]

Amen Sister but I am wondering if we ever will get enough of rejoicing when
we are finished this race.

[Neubill]

The original question was, "Should I keep or not keep the Sabbath day?" May I offer a perspective from a Messianic Jew who has spent the last 12 years attending Sunday services in an Apostolic church?

For the Sabbatarians among us, it is not wrong to worship our Holy King Jesus on the 1st day of the week.

I know this may come as a shock to some that I, a Messianic Jew, would place the stamp of approval on 1st day of the week worship, but here's the reality: Jesus shows up on Sundays, and it's because He's invited to attend.
(Can I get an "Amen!" from somebody?)

We suppose that Shabbat is for worship because the Jews gathered in the synagogue on Shabbat, but it should be noted that the Jews also assembled on Mondays and Thursdays (market days) as well.

[Neubill]

We suppose that Shabbat is for worship because the Jews gathered in the synagogue on Shabbat, but it should be noted that the Jews also assembled on Mondays and Thursdays (market days) as well. The synagogue was every town's Jewish communal center, both inside and outside of Judea. It became a tradition to assemble on Shabbat and worship Him, but G-d's Word is clear:

six days is work done, and in the seventh day [is] a sabbath of rest, a holy convocation; ye do no work; it [is] a sabbath to יהוה in all your dwellings. Lev. 23:3 YLT
(Insertion of the Tetragrammaton is mine)

Let me share the Jewish perspective with you regarding "...in all your dwellings." In 15 words or less, the Holy Convocation is supposed to take place in the home. Not in a building

Often times, I meet Believers and get to know them in conversation. After the fun tallk, the conversation goes something like,

THEM: "Bill, we should get together on a Friday night sometime and do/go (place destination and Christ-like activity of your choice here) !"
ME: "We'd like that, but our family is involved on Friday nights. Maybe a Saturday night, perhaps?"
THEM: "What do you do on Fridays?"
ME: "Friday is our Family devotion night."
THEM: "Wow, really? What do you do? What's that like?"
ME: "We have a home service unto The LORD. We read from The Bible, pray, worship, sing songs, and glorify G-d by having a Thanksgiving Service unto Him."
THEM: "That sounds really nice."
ME: "Would you like to join us?"
THEM: "Can we? Sure!"

After our Holy Convocation and festive meal, more questions...

THEM: "You do this every week? How long have you been doing it?"
ME: "Yeah, every week. Since we became a family, and that's nine years together."

Tell a believer that you kick back on Saturdays after having a praise, worship, and thanksgiving service at home the night before, it's received well. Tell a believer that you keep the Sabbath and that you have a Shabbat service in your home every Friday night and people treat you like you just kicked Jesus in the stomach.

[Neubill]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Colossians 2:16-17 (KJV)

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Shalom Rev, it's nice to meet you!

The only reason I quoted your post is because this verse has been thrown in my face since I became a Believer.

The traditional view of verse 16 is that a Gentile should not receive criticism from others for not eating or drinking Kosher things and refraining from observing the feasts, Rosh Chodesh (new moon), or Shabbat. We would probably not give it a thought that Paul is presenting the converse, but that's exactly what he's telling the Messianic Jews in Rome. Don't let people get in your face because you choose to keep Kosher, keep the feasts, look for the new moon, or keep Shabbat, yet that's exactly what the Body of Messiah does to those who do, and very well I might add.

In the Colossians passage, I highlighted the word 'but' because it's not the best word that could have been used by the King James translators. The word 'and' is more appropriate.

The Sabbath is a shadow of things to come, and the body of Christ; in keeping the Sabbath and observing this 'shadow,' I'm celebrating the one who is casting the shadow. In keeping Shabbat, I am in communion with and celebrating the one who is The Lord of The Sabbath!

[Neubill]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The sabbath is a SHADOW of the body of Christ. We have the eternal Sabbath, and not a mere day, when we have Christ.

Sabbath day was a memorial of OLD CREATION. Not NEW. We are in the New creation, and this sabbath NEVER ENDS AT SUNDOWN!!!

Hello again, Bro. Blume!

The Sabbath is a shadow which is being cast by the One who is The Lord of the Sabbath. Celebrate the Sabbath and you're celebrating The Lord of the Sabbath.

G-d made an eternal covenant with Moses and the Jewish people in Exodus 31.
In verse 13, G-d said that the Sabbath was a sign that He sanctified His people.
In verse 14, G-d said that the Sabbath is holy unto His people.
In verse 16, G-d said that His people are to keep the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant people between Him and His people.
In verse 17, G-d said that the Sabbath was a sign which served as a memorial between Him and His people of Creation. Not just old creation, but all creation.

Bro. Blume, you are a new creation in Christ, but you are also one of G-d's People. If you're grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, then not only is the Sabbath for them, it's for you!

We are a new creation in Christ, but I disagree with the notion that it gives us an exemption from the weekly Sabbath. To the contrary, being a new creation in Christ enhances our relationship to the weekly Sabbath, because we recognize the one who made us a new creation in Him happens to be The Lord of the Sabbath. How appropriate it is to praise Jesus on the Sabbath, to praise the Holy One, on a day ordained by G-d as a Holy Day!

The Fourth Commandment was not abolished, nor did Yeshua change it.
It is an everlasting covenant and we (the Church), in our Justin Martyr and Marcion-influenced hate for all things Jewish, changed it.

Should we keep the Sabbath? Yes.
Why? If nothing else, because Jesus (the author and goal of our faith) kept it and taught His disciples to do the same.

Redlands is about 45 minutes from where I live and I look forward to observing a Shabbat service in my home with you and the Mrs. We're decent cooks, but the Spiritual Food is Five Star!

Shabbat Shalom, Bro. Blume!

[Michael The Disciple]

We are a new creation in Christ, but I disagree with the notion that it gives us an exemption from the weekly Sabbath. To the contrary, being a new creation in Christ enhances our relationship to the weekly Sabbath, because we recognize the one who made us a new creation in Him happens to be The Lord of the Sabbath. How appropriate it is to praise Jesus on the Sabbath, to praise the Holy One, on a day ordained by G-d as a Holy Day!

The Fourth Commandment was not abolished, nor did Yeshua change it.
It is an everlasting covenant and we (the Church), in our Justin Martyr and Marcion-influenced hate for all things Jewish, changed it.

Should we keep the Sabbath? Yes.
Why? If nothing else, because Jesus (the author and goal of our faith) kept it and taught His disciples to do the same.

The reason I am exempt from keeping the Sabbath is found right here. It has nothing at all to do with Justin Martyr or Maricon and everything to do with the Holy Ghost.

To begin we ask did the Holy Ghost require the Gentile Christians to keep the law of Moses? The answer is here:


23: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24: Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26: Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27: We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30: So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31: Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. Acts 15:21

This is word for word the will of the Lord Yeshua for the Gentile disciples.

If a Messianic Jew or anyone else WANTS to keep the Sabbath go for it. But one should not teach that the rest of us are not exempt.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Neubill

We would probably not give it a thought that Paul is presenting the converse, but that's exactly what he's telling the Messianic Jews in Rome. Don't let people get in your face because you choose to keep Kosher, keep the feasts, look for the new moon, or keep Shabbat, yet that's exactly what the Body of Messiah does to those who do, and very well I might add.

In the Colossians passage, I highlighted the word 'but' because it's not the best word that could have been used by the King James translators. The word 'and' is more appropriate.
!

While I have no problem with you keeping the Sabbath or eating kosher, I do take issue with those that would say that if one is not keeping them in the Jewish custom one is not saved. (I don't think you are saying this. Am I correct?)
The portion I quoted from Colossians is where Paul is speaking to those who where not circumcised, hence I'd think they were gentiles. So while you shouldn't be jumped all over for keeping your custom, the gentile believer should not be jumped on for not keeping them. Let's live in peace for the Prince of Peace and His kingdom sake!

Blessings!

[Neubill]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The reason I am exempt from keeping the Sabbath is found right here. It has nothing at all to do with Justin Martyr or Maricon and everything to do with the Holy Ghost.

To begin we ask did the Holy Ghost require the Gentile Christians to keep the law of Moses? The answer is here:

24: Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Hello Michael! It's nice to meet you.

May I point out to you that the portion you placed in bold print has nothing to do with Gentiles keeping Torah? It has to do with the Oral Law's commandment to circumcise those who desire to be part of Israel.
Who made the demand that Gentiles be circumcised? The Pharisees in the beginning of the chapter you quoted.
What sect of Judaism required circumcision of proselytes and converts to Judaism? The Pharisees.
Nowhere in the Torah is a procedure outlined for a Gentile to become a Jew. It is found only in the Oral Law, known in our New Testament as The Traditions of our Fathers.

The portion you placed in bold is not an exemption from obeying Torah.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30: So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31: Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. Acts 15:21

This is word for word the will of the Lord Yeshua for the Gentile disciples.

Brother Michael, the Jerusalem Council did not want to put the yoke of the Oral Law upon new babes in Messiah, hence the 'no greater burden.' They needed a starting point, which was to stop engaging in pagan practices, but the 'no greater burden than these necessary things' is not to be interpreted as an ending point, or an exemption from obedience to Torah. People forget about verse 21:

for Moses from former generations in every city hath those preaching him -- in the synagogues every sabbath being read.'

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If a Messianic Jew or anyone else WANTS to keep the Sabbath go for it. But one should not teach that the rest of us are not exempt.

A 'Disciple' imitates his Master. If The Master blesses the bread with his left hand covering the top of his head, that's the way the disciple does it. Whatever the Master does, the disciple does it as well.

We are disciples of Yeshua, and He is our Master. He kept Shabbat.

It was nice discussing this with you!

[Neubill]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

While I have no problem with you keeping the Sabbath or eating kosher, I do take issue with those that would say that if one is not keeping them in the Jewish custom one is not saved. (I don't think you are saying this. Am I correct?)

You are correct, sir. Observing Torah will save no one. No one can be saved under the First Covenant. (Paul calls it the First Covenant, and that's what I call it.)

Originally Posted by RevDWW

The portion I quoted from Colossians is where Paul is speaking to those who where not circumcised, hence I'd think they were gentiles.

Doh! I shouldn't type @ 3:00 a.m.

I don't think our view is the same regarding the recipient of Paul's letter to the believers in Colosse. In nearly every place he went, he visited the synagogue and proclaimed the Good News to the Jews, and there were always some who believed. While I respect your view, I'm convinced that his letters were to an assembly of believers who were Jew and Gentile.

Originally Posted by RevDWW

So while you shouldn't be jumped all over for keeping your custom, the gentile believer should not be jumped on for not keeping them.

We are Apostolic.
Our Apostolic forefathers provide for us the blueprint of our lifestyle. They kept Shabbat.
Yeshua, our final Authority for all things, kept Shabbat.

I will not jump on anyone who doesn't keep the Sabbath, though my suggestion to Michael might seem as much, but let me be clear: I lovingly exhort my Apostolic brethren to observe the Fourth Commandment and keep Shabbat.

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Let's live in peace for the Prince of Peace and His kingdom sake!

A-men, and amen!

Thanks for discussing this!