God uses suffering to teach us to minister

[Bro-Larry]

So let me get this straight.

God is a child abuser. right?? He abuses His children, so they can help others to cope with the abuse, that He is using to help them, which will in turn help them to help someone else to cope with the abuseee......? What's wrong with this picture?

I believe I have suffered as much as anyone here, and it never once made me have a warm fuzzy feeling toward GOD. It instead made me mad at the devil, knowing he is the one causing it.

[steve p]

Trouble is inevitable...as you stated and I paraphrase....it came with the fall of man...
WHAT we do with lifes struggles is what is important....Do we succomb to the evil one and give up or do we utilize it (whatever it is...in my case alcoholism) to help others overcome....I do believe it would have been difficult to overcome alcoholism IF I were to be the first to attempt it....Seeing others succeed gives one hope....the topic is God uses suffering....not God causes suffering......
Blessings!

[Bro-Larry]

Everytime you glorify suffering, you are giving the devil permission to come into your life and cause more havoc. Are you receiving trouble "as from the hand of God" as Job did? The more he received the more he got.

(II Cor 1:3-4) says that it is by the comfort of God (not the tribulation), that we are able to comfort others and that it is also God's comfort that is the source that God uses to comfort us.

If God wants us to be comfortable, why glorify the tribulation?

[Pressing-On]

Larry,
I don't understand your point of view. Perhaps I am missing your point.

I Peter 1:7 "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (3) And not only so, but we glory (to vaunt) in tribulations (pressure, anguish, trouble) also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; (4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

II Cor 12:10 "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

If we are going to mature in Christ, we are going to suffer some things. We don't look for these things, but when they come upon us, we look to Him.

When we come out, we share that with others so that they may find strength in the midst of their trouble.

[Bro-Larry]

My point is God does not send tribulation and suffering to us. All feiry darts and trials come from the devil. They all should be resisted vigorously with the shield of faith.

Now here is the point of my point, the very sharp point of it is this-----that it is not the "going through or suffering through a trial" that benefits you or glorifies God. It is in the triumphing over the trial, that you prove to the world that your God is bigger than anything the devil can throw at you. It is in the quenching of that feiry trial/dart that God is glorified.

In I Pe 1:7 it indicates to me that after your shield of faith has been used against the fire, and your faith is stronger than the fire, (your faith puts out the feiry dart) ---- then and only then does your faith give praise, honour, and glory to Jesus Christ.

If the trial proves to be stronger than your faith and you have to suffer through the trial (like most people do), then you have given no glory to God.

Go to that thread a few weeks ago where those poor ignorant parents let their little girl die and see if anyone posted that those parents' actions glorified God?

You gave three scriptures and the word "suffering" is not in any of them.
Then you made this statement: "If we are going to mature in Christ, we are going to suffer..." The context of all three scriptures is that when you stand victoriously over a trial or tribulation then you can rejoice!!!

I don't like suffering!!!! I only believe in the suffering of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because He suffered, I believe I don't have to. He took my suffering, and I believe in what His suffering did for me. I believe that His suffering delivered me from the sin, sickness, disease, poverty, and death from which I could not deliver myself. I believe in the radical grace of God.

That, my friend, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is deeply ingrained in RCC Dogma, that people have to suffer. The Buddists monks think their suffering will gain them God's favor. The Islamists believe that also. Almost every religion in the world embraces suffering as major tenent of faith. This obsession with suffering borders on idolotry. They are offering another sacrifice. There is only One True Sacrifice--Jesus.

Bro Larry, So If Im reading this right No one goes thru suffering to minister ? If that is so then heres a scenario for you. Someone confides in a minister that the were abused as a child. Do you think the minister who has gone thru the same thing and been thru the same abuse as well can help minister to the person ? Or do you think just anyone could minister to this person and help them out. Seems to me the one who has been thru it and been healed of it would be of more an effect. Just my opinion though

[Pressing-On]

Larry,
I agree with your post, for the most part. I don't believe that "all" fiery darts come from the devil. Sometimes they are of our own making.

Romans 5:1 may not say "suffering", but we term "trouble, anguish and pressure" as "suffering". Right?

I do agree with you saying, "It is in the triumphing over the trial, that you prove to the world that your God is bigger than anything the devil can throw at you. It is in the quenching of that feiry trial/dart that God is glorified."

That is an excellent point. I believe that is, also, the point of all posters after reviewing their comments.

That would also be the point of II Corinthians 12:10 "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

I understand your point on the RCC dogma of suffering. I grew up in that and I had an aunt and her children that took that seriously. lol I've seen some, of like faith, that glory in their suffering. I get what you are saying. Hilarious to pray for someone that you know doesn't want to be healed. Well, maybe not that funny. Perhaps it's just annoying or ridiculous - a waste of time.

Again, I don't believe that was the point being made here. I think we all understand that our trials bring us the victory if we stay plugged in to Him.

I did appreciate your good comments in your post.

Amen!

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by ByFaith

Bro Larry, So If Im reading this right No one goes thru suffering to minister ? If that is so then heres a scenario for you. Someone confides in a minister that the were abused as a child. Do you think the minister who has gone thru the same thing and been thru the same abuse as well can help minister to the person ? Or do you think just anyone could minister to this person and help them out. Seems to me the one who has been thru it and been healed of it would be of more an effect. Just my opinion though

All scripture in given.....for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction... II Tim 3:16 God is not using the devils tools. He's has given us His word to train us. It doesn't mean can't learn from our experiences, but the word is better.

[Bro-Larry]

PO, I got a bit preachey with my post, no disrespect intended. God has already richly blessed all His children, but some actually know it. Eph 1:3

[Falla39]

Paul exhorts Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:11,12.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him.
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us".

Phil.3:10, "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Cor.1: "And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers
of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation."

Rom. 8: 17,18 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with
Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

I sat on the oncology floor of Medical City Dallas, something over a year
ago after our youngest sister had undergone chemo twice and then a bone
marrow transplant to give her a complete new immunune system which
hopefully, would take care of the lymphoma that had invaded her body.

I sat there as the physican's assistant, a very sweet lady in her early 30's
gave Lynn the report pertaining to her blood work, etc., etc. After telling her
everything looked really good, she squatted down and eye level with Lynn
told her. "You always have such a good attitude. People are talking about
you here. People are saying good things about you and I think you should
know!

As she left something dawned on me and I spoke these words. "Lynn, God
is getting glory out of your body and your sweet spirit. You are glorifying
God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. As soon as I said it,
the words of a scripture came to mind. We are the temple of God. How else
is He going to be glorified except in us, His Body.

I Cor.6:20 "For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body
and in your spirit, which are God's".

I had never thought of it in that way. God was glorified in His Son and in His
holy apostles. And the Bible speaks of in 2 Thess. 1:10 "When he shall come
to be glorified IN his saints, and to be admired IN all them that believe be-
cause our testimony among you was believed in that day".

Just some thoughts.

Blessings,

Falla39