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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:09 AM
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Pastor Keith Pastor Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Not sure how you mean that statement. Is one part of the bride prior to taking in His name in baptism? It would seem that the implication is that one becomes part of the bride at justification.
It means exactly that, you cant be in the bride of Christ, go in the rapture without being baptized in Jesus Name.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:56 PM
RunningOnFaith RunningOnFaith is offline
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
It means exactly that, you cant be in the bride of Christ, go in the rapture without being baptized in Jesus Name.
According to my understanding justifcation is the believer being declared righteous before God and having the righteouness of Christ imputed to them. Now if Justifcation occurs before Baptism at the point of faith, on what basis would God send someone to hell who had not been baptized, but had yet been imputed the perfect righteousness of Christ?
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RunningOnFaith View Post
According to my understanding justifcation is the believer being declared righteous before God and having the righteouness of Christ imputed to them. Now if Justifcation occurs before Baptism at the point of faith, on what basis would God send someone to hell who had not been baptized, but had yet been imputed the perfect righteousness of Christ?
I am assuming that you believe that righteousness is imputed at baptism?

I don't believe that, righteousness is imputed at faith. Galatians and Romans both teach that. The believer is declared to be in right standing with God at the moment of faith, of course someone with faith will obey God, but we can't negate what God says about someone who hasn't gone through the complete process.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:26 PM
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This is how Bishop G.T. Haywood taught what is some times referred to as "the light doctrine" and is some times called "holy, righteous, and wicked."

FIRST AND SECOND RESURRECTION
That there is a first and second resurrection of the dead the
scriptures plainly declare. But who shall be partakers thereof,
especially the first resurrection, is a thing that has not been
clearly explained.
We have generally understood the first resurrection to be those
who are saved, and the second resurrection to be composed of the
wicked, or unsaved. Then again there is a teaching that there is but
one literal resurrection of the dead and at that time Jesus will sit
on the throne of His glory and separate the "righteous from the
wicked" as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." This though
is derived from Matt. 25:31, 32.
Revelation 20:4-6, says "Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in
the first resurrection," and "the rest of the dead live not again
until
the thousand years were finished." And these words are true and
faithful. Rev. 19:9;22:6. According to the foregoing passages there is
a thousand years between the first and second resurrections.
This being true, who then are the "righteous that are separated from
the wicked as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats?"
Difference Between the Righteous and Holy.
If we will notice Rev. 20:6 we will see that they who take part
in the first resurrection are "blessed and holy." We only have to look
closely into the Word of God to find that there is difference between
the righteous and the holy. He that is righteous, let him be righteous
still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still - Rev. 22:11.
In Hebrew the word "holy" is "kodesh" which means a sacred place, or
thing, consecrated (thing); dedicated (thing) holiness, a saint, a
sanctuary; while the word righteous is "tsaddeek," which means just,
lawful, righteous (man) or to make right in a moral sense, to clear
one's self, to justify self. From this we can see that righteousness
is moral actions, while holiness is a consecrated state.
Holy people are those whose lives are consecrated to God by the
Holy Spirit's indwelling. The prophets were called "holy" because of
the Holy Ghost that is upon them and in them. - 2 Pet. 1:21; Eph. 3:5.
Holiness can only be claimed by those who are filled with the Holy
spirit. Prophets,: priests, kings and special chosen people before
Christ were called "holy" but the others who walked in obedience to
the law were called righteous men. - Matt. 13:17. It was Moses who
said about 1490 years before Christ, "Would God that all of the Lord's
people were prophets, and that the Lord could put His (holy) Spirit
upon them." Num. 11:29. In Joel 2:28, we find God promising to fulfill
Moses' desires. If they were all to; be prophets (Rev. 19:10) and
filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:16, 17,) that it could be seen
that in the new dispensation (of grace) God's people were not only be
righteous, but holy also. - (Isa. 62:12; Luke 1:74, 75.)
From the above mentioned scriptures it can be clearly seen that
there is a difference between the holy and the righteous. Holiness is
found in the Holy Spirit-filled life. - (See 1 Thess. 4:7,8). There
are many who are called holy who are only righteous, because they have
not been partakers of the Holy Ghost. There is a true holiness. (Eph.
4:24) It is the Holy Spirit-filled people who shall take part in the
first resurrection. The "blessed" are those who "die in the Lord"
during the tribulation period and are "called to the marriage supper
of the lamb." - Rev. 14:13; 19:9; 20:6
Seven Sections of the First Resurrection.
There are few people who have noticed that the first resurrection
is divided into sections, or orders. The following are the seven
orders in, which the Scriptures indicate that it takes place:
1. The first resurrection began with the resurrection of Christ.
2. The saints which arose after his resurrection (Matt. 27:52,
53) was another "order" or section of the first resurrection (1 Cor.
15:23.)
3. During the gospel age the mystical resurrection is "being
buried with him by baptism into his death." Rom. 6:4, 5)
4. The resurrection of the dead and the changing of those that
are "alive and remain is to take place when the Lord appears - Cor.
15:51, 52; 1 Thess. 4:13-17. The last "orders" of the first
resurrection take place during the great tribulation period.
5. There seems to be palm bearers in one section. - Rev. 7:9-17.
6. The Man-child appears in one "order" consisting of the 144,000
who are seen on Mt. Zion after the Man-child is caught up to the
throne of God. - Rev. 12:5; 14:1, 2.
7. The final order consists of all those "who were beheaded for
he witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received
his mark upon their forehead, or in their hands." Rev. 20:4.
From this there appears to be seven sections to the first
resurrection, "but every man in his own order. Christ the first
fruits; afterwards, they that are Christ's at his coming." This is
the first resurrection.
The Second Resurrection.
According to the inspired word of God the resurrection of the
"blessed and Holy" is completed a thousand years before the second
resurrection. It is from this point that we ar obliged to note the
difference between partakers of the two resurrections.
After the thousand years expire "the rest of the dead" (those who
did not come forth in the first resurrection) both righteous and
wicked, live again and are made to stand before God. It is then that
Jesus separates them as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goat
according to Matt. 25:31-46.
In this resurrection is included all the righteous men of all
ages who walked in all the light that they were given. It is my candid
opinion that all heathen, Israelites, Christian professors who have
never heard the true gospel of Christ and those who die during
the millenium, walking in the light of their times will be given
eternal life at the last resurrection.
Many righteous people have died without the Holy Ghost and
the question has been asked: "Where will they come in?" They shall be
given eternal life in the last day. They shall inherit the New
Earth where life eternal reigns because "there shall be no more death.
If we desire to take part in the first resurrection we must be
filled with the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. It
is the church of the First-born that takes part in the first
resurrection. To enter into that Church, which is his body, we must be
baptized into it by both water and the Spirit. (See John 3:5; Rom.
6:3-5; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13; Gal. 3:26-28.
The time for the first resurrection is at hand. Are you
preparing to meet the Bridegroom? You must get oil within your vessels
and have your lamps trimmed and burning. Soon shall we hear the
midnight cry - "BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH."
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2011, 02:51 PM
paulholmesjr paulholmesjr is offline
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Re: Does Dan Seagraves Believe in the LIght Doctri

Okay here goes. Last night in bible study some of us got together to ask if bible college was for me. And this is one of my fears. The bible says in spirit and in truth. If this light doctrine chages your mind about the gospel that Jesus preached and peter. If this looms in your mind to the point it lessen the grace of God for a person. Then why believe what you preach. This meaning the apostoles died in vain. And so did Jesus
we are in the last data brethren please don't be decieved. Other doctrines are popping up left and right. Even though I never met bro. Seagraves I don't think you should ask this on a forum. Ask him in person. And mr. Thadus I have heard you preach along time ago. Listen very close to me little brother. Don't you stop! Andstop listening to other peoples. Opinion...but be humble and open. And pray. Be easy with the Ramah of Lord. And also the Logos. We do not exist to bring up old things in the past to whom ever made that remark about thadus. Would Jesus say that? What would Jesus say? If you are not a pastor of someones soul...why throw rocks? Jesus spoke about casting the. First stone. If you do throw one stone I know the second one gets easier. And easier. Sorry I am not hear to cast judgement but the bible says to love one another. So let it go. Love you my brothers. Aloha from Pentecostals of Maui. Bro. Paul Holmes

Last edited by paulholmesjr; 02-04-2011 at 02:54 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2007, 02:29 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
This is what he believes:

We are justified at the point of faith, everyone who is in the bride of Christ has to be baptized in Jesus Name.
...
Justified as in "just as if I'd never sinned"?
Does he teach that sins are forgiven/remitted at justification?
I'm not asking for contention --just curious.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:30 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
This is what he believes:

We are justified at the point of faith, everyone who is in the bride of Christ has to be baptized in Jesus Name.

That baptism unites us with Christ Romans 6; Col. 2, and that the normative experience of the New Birth in the NT is faith, repentance, baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit.

He does not call what he believes to be the light doctrine, but will discuss freely what C. Haney, GT Haywood and A. Urshan believed and in the least they validated as being legit. the experiences of true faith found outside our understanding.
Keith,

Does S. believe that remission of sins happens after repentance and water baptism?
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:59 AM
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Ferd Ferd is offline
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If the Admin here at AFF had some real spunk, they would get Brother Seagraves to come here and at least provide us some articles....
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:10 AM
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Pastor Keith Pastor Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
If the Admin here at AFF had some real spunk, they would get Brother Seagraves to come here and at least provide us some articles....
I will be happy to share some of his paper from the UGST Symposium, where he outlines the Justification at Faith.
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:44 AM
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Ferd Ferd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
I will be happy to share some of his paper from the UGST Symposium, where he outlines the Justification at Faith.
cool. thanks.

I would still like to see him posting here.
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