The State of the UPC - Page 2

MrMasterMind · #11 02-05-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I understand. This is not good news at all. And if true it's cause for alarm, no doubt.

However, it does not take into account the hundreds of young ministers coming into the organization annually. Naturally, the numbers coming in over the age of 35 would be fewer... Therefore if stagnant, or even slight decline it would still not automatically spell out the demise of the group any time soon.

it definitely not "hundreds" of young ministers coming in. Even the cons within UPCI agree on that one. I am not anti UPC. Never have been. Once again this is not about doctrine it is about demographics. Let me put it this way only 4% of the ministers in the UPC or 35 or younger. It WILL collapse.

aegsm76 · #12 02-05-2011, 01:18 AM

There are a lot of young preachers.
However, there are a lot of old preachers who do not want to groom them for succession.
There are a lot of older preachers who have not planned for retirement and therefore cannot afford to retire and give up their church.
There is no clear line of succession, except for the family one, which I do not believe is ordained of God, in most cases.
So, a lot of young preachers give up and move on to secular jobs.
I have been privileged to be around some pastors who actually groomed and wanted their young ministers to grow and establish churches.
This makes a huge difference.
Also, most of these young preachers care nothing about getting a license, unless they are pointed in that direction.

Hoovie · #13 02-05-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

it definitely not "hundreds" of young ministers coming in. Even the cons within UPCI agree on that one. I am not anti UPC. Never have been. Once again this is not about doctrine it is about demographics. Let me put it this way only 4% of the ministers in the UPC or 35 or younger. It WILL collapse.

I wish we had a way of proving or disproving that. "hundreds" per year would simply be 4 new ministers or more getting a license per state... Again, that would not prove groweth in that bracket, because any ministers dropping, lapsing, moving up in age above 35, or even dying (hopefully not many!) would be deducted.

Do you have any source for your statements at all?

Hoovie · #14 02-05-2011, 01:42 AM

It would be very beneficial to know the current demographics, see how they have changed, and see how they compare with other Christian denominations.

No doubt someone has these numbers. It would be very interesting to be privy to these.

Austin · #15 02-05-2011, 08:37 AM

In 1973 in a full gospel wopship service in a church in Indiana a church who's pastor was one of the original founders of the UPC then, and was kicked out of the church organization because he had the first radio broadcast ministry,which they said the radio was of the devil.
During this service the Lord spoke to me in a split second of time and said," "Beware of the spirit of compromise" At the time this had no meaning no matter how much I searched in God to understand. Today I understand very clearly the meaning of that message. I think the Bible calls it, The great falling away!

Hoovie · #16 02-05-2011, 08:46 AM

Austin can you explain further? Do you think the UPC has been greatly compromised?

Falla39 · #17 02-05-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

At best, it's stagnant. Its best years are far gone, and the continued brain drain has taken an incalculable toll.

The best and brightest are leaving in droves.

This sounds just a bit arrogant to me!

1 Cor. 10:12

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

jfrog · #18 02-05-2011, 08:53 AM

Hoovie, even if hundreds of new ministers were coming in that says nothing of retention rates. If they have 100 in every year and 99 of those leave after 5 years then they only have a net of 1 new minister per year.

CC1 · #19 02-05-2011, 08:54 AM

I am really surprised at the dismal demographics regarding the percentage of licensed ministers under the age of 35 (reported to be 4% if correct). I knew it would not be good but was shocked at how bad it is.

I think one of the weaknesses of many Oneness Pentecostal churches, not just UPC ones but exUPC ones as well, is a lack of mentoring young men to become preachers.

My anecdotal observation is that;

1. It appears many pastors do not want to take the time to mentor young preachers.

2. There is no emphasis on developing young preachers. No programs or encouragement to do so.

3. In the case of many progressive churches the concept being emphasized is that everybody is a minister, one on one evangelism, etc which is all good and true BUT we still need young ministers developed for full time ministry.

The Mrs · #20 02-05-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I am really surprised at the dismal demographics regarding the percentage of licensed ministers under the age of 35 (reported to be 4% if correct). I knew it would not be good but was shocked at how bad it is.

I think one of the weaknesses of many Oneness Pentecostal churches, not just UPC ones but exUPC ones as well, is a lack of mentoring young men to become preachers.

My anecdotal observation is that;

1. It appears many pastors do not want to take the time to mentor young preachers.

2. There is no emphasis on developing young preachers. No programs or encouragement to do so.

3. In the case of many progressive churches the concept being emphasized is that everybody is a minister, one on one evangelism, etc which is all good and true BUT we still need young ministers developed for full time ministry.

If I remember right...wasn't there also the fact that so many Ministers were passing their churches to their own sons that many young men were discouraged and either didn't bother, or left after finally figuring this dynamic out?