Tongues, boundaries, rules

[Titus2woman]

14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

I will not give examples of things I have seen in Pentecostal churches lest I be accused of mocking other's worship... But 'decently and in order' would in no wise be used to describe them... and many of these involved 'tongues'.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

I will not give examples of things I have seen in Pentecostal churches lest I be accused of mocking other's worship... But 'decently and in order' would in no wise be used to describe them... and many of these involved 'tongues'.

I am very sure we could put our heads together and share stories. People are people. Some are more emotional and some are more stubborn and some are more... and some are more...

But, at the end of the day, we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Word gives us instruction and the privilege of participating in the NT church, which is a spiritual body. Nothing could be more grand than that, IMO.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Actually, the operative word in I Corinthians 14:5 is "rather".



The Greek definition for "rather" is "mallon: more, in a greater degree.

So, the passage is not forbidding to speak in tongues, it is continuing the instruction that began in verse one, expounds more in verses 12, 13, 39 and 40, when it says:



Desire, seek, excel, covet, and pray for spiritual gifts, but forbid not to speak in tongues. Do everything decent and in order.

It's really very simple. It's only ridiculous when the gifts are not in operation and I believe that many do not understand that they can pray to receive them.

Well said.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Big Dummy

Have you ever visited a church and ran into odd situations related to tongues?

One person would give a long speech in tongues and the interpretation would be very short or a short message in tongues produces a long interpretation?

As I have learned a little Spanish and heard other languages spoken, I can say that there a times even when translating, much less interpreting, that it will take several words to give a clear meaning to one in the original language. Also there are words that do not translate either well or at all, which could lead to a longer discourse.

Someone takes you in the back room and says now repeat after me "jaba ..." called "priming the pump".

This is a sin. A person is deceiving another into believing that they have something which they do not. I have heard of this practice and detest it. I ask people, after I hear them claim to have spoken in tongues, if they were taught how to do so. This helps me deal with them more effectively. I know a Catholic gentleman who, on his own, prayed through. When we were discussing it, another man asked if it could be taught. We replied in unison to the negative.

You know a second language and you never hear that language during a tongues worship section.

Your unbelieving friends speaks other languages and they never hear their native language spoken.

This is the same question rephrased. The issue here is that you have more hundreds of languages that have been spoken though history and the present. Each language has multiple dialects. An example would be English. Canada, Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, the United States, New Zealand are all English speaking places. However, depending where you visit, you will hear a different dialect of English. In Canada and the United States, there are subdialects depending on which part of the nation being discussed.

This is true for any language that you wish to discuss. Therefore, hearing one individual speak in a language or dialect that I or my friends might recognize should be understood to be remote.

Nothing you hear even resembles a language of anykind.

This is a horse of another color. However, having heard people speak in Chinese or Japanese, I can say that not all languages sound like the Latin/German based languages that we are familiar with. This is not to say that there are not pathetic fakes (we have seen them).

You are open to any of God's gifts and you don't want to fake it, nor do you desire to "quench" the Spirit.

Where or What are the boundries and rules for determining if the tongues you are hearing are of God?

This gets into a whole different topic, and I will endeavor to reply in more detail in a separate post.

Originally Posted by PASTOR'S WIFE

Just for clarification: Translation and Interpretation are 2 different things. Translation would be word for word but interpretation could be condensed or lengthened to relay what God has spoken to the church. So interpretation of tongues is what is done in most churches. God uses our mouth and our vocabularily to get the message across.

This is very true. Bro. Bernard's book on the gifts of the Spirit is excellent when bringing this out and explaining it.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am very sure we could put our heads together and share stories. People are people. Some are more emotional and some are more stubborn and some are more... and some are more...

But, at the end of the day, we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Word gives us instruction and the privilege of participating in the NT church, which is a spiritual body. Nothing could be more grand than that, IMO.

I have heard and seen my share of the stories that could be told. Some of them are very sad, some are horrifying, and others more amusing. However, all of them should be taken for our instruction that we must be very careful and sensitive to the Spirit when we are being used of God.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...It's really very simple. It's only ridiculous when the gifts are not in operation and I believe that many do not understand that they can pray to receive them.

Amen. You illuminate the proper path, imo.

Originally Posted by Jay

...This gets into a whole different topic, and I will endeavor to reply in more detail in a separate post...
This is very true. Bro. Bernard's book on the gifts of the Spirit is excellent when bringing this out and explaining it.

Cool, I'll be reading; and I missed the ref for this book, could you name it again, ty.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jay

I have heard and seen my share of the stories that could be told. Some of them are very sad, some are horrifying, and others more amusing. However, all of them should be taken for our instruction that we must be very careful and sensitive to the Spirit when we are being used of God.

Excellent! I agree!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Cool, I'll be reading; and I missed the ref for this book, could you name it again, ty.

The name of the book is titled Spiritual Gifts. The author is David K. Bernard. This is a discussion about the gifts of the Spirit that Paul lists in Corinthians.


As for his question concerning how to tell if certain tongues come from God...

One, outside of looking for those things that a blatantly faked, you must ask if they are giving praise and glory to Jesus Christ. This is likely the most important element as Paul tells the Corinthian church, "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." (I Corinthians 12:3)

The best understanding is to know the Holy Ghost so well, that you can tell. Another way is to pray for the discerning of spirits. Also a strong study of I Corinthians is key to understanding what you are listening to. Lastly, nothing will be said or done that will contradict the revealed Word in Scripture.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yea I have yet to hear it done as it was on the day of pentecost,not to mention all the tongues from behind the pulpit...It clearly states not to speak in tongues unless someone understands what yo are saying and I have no idea what anyone says when they speak in tongues which goes against scripture specially in Acts when it was clearly understood by the onlookers..

that is NOT what it says. It says if there is no interpreter (someone with that gift).

It also does not say not to speak in tongues. It says speak to your self.

Now I must ask how does one know if there is no interpreter? If one reads the context it appears this church had people speaking in tongues left and right without interpretations or everyone was speaking before the interpretation, thus Paul limited tongues to 2-3. So then after speaking in tongues by 2-3 if no interpretation came rather than others speaking in tongues they were to speak to themselves.

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, I understood that many just desired to speak in tongues; but I can easily imagine quite a bit of..."practicing," just like today. Hmm.

And ya, can praying in tongues be "getting the Holy Spirit?"

[Jay]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Hmm, I understood that many just desired to speak in tongues; but I can easily imagine quite a bit of..."practicing," just like today. Hmm.

And ya, can praying in tongues be "getting the Holy Spirit?"

I am not quite sure what you are refering to by this.

If you are asking if a person who has been taught to speak in tongues eventually receive the real thing without realizing it, the answer would be yes. This has happened before, but sadly it is more unusual than otherwise.