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  #11  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:47 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
My and my husband's families go way back in Pentecost.

I have NEVER known any preacher to preach it was a sin
to go to a doctor or to take medicine.
I'm sure there are a few RARE instances of such, but,
I agree with Esaias....please don't broadbrush the entire
group as foolish.

And for the record, I love UPC, was raised in that. I am
associated with WPF as of now. I consider myself very
conservative, but not stupid.

I have been highly offended by some of the postings on AFF
against the UPC.
But, every one has a right to their beliefs or unbeliefs.

I love this Apostolic message and holiness lifestyle.
I've never personally heard a preacher or pastor teach that either, but I do know several individuals who believe it. And in every case the "no doctor" thing isn't the only thing screwy with them.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:00 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Here in Ohio, I know of one UPC minister (he was a sectional Presbyter) who taught it was wrong to go to a doctor. We knew people from his church. He wouldn't even go to a hospital to pray for people.


I also knew of one ALJC pastor who taught that

and another Ohio ALJC church where the women all had babies at home delivered by a midwife instead of going to a doctor or hospital.
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:03 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

I don't really find this a stupid position to take. Trusting God for ones healing? I heard this as soon as I came into Trinitarian Pentecostalism.

The first "Pentecostal" type ministry I read about was John G. Lake. Im sure he taught it was sin to do anything but trust God for healing.

Then there was Smith Wigglesworth. He taught the same thing. I think many if not most of the famous Pentecostal Preachers believed this.

I used to fellowship some with the Ceylon Pentecostal Mission, a worldwide Trinitarian Organization. No one is allowed to be in the ministry who does not trust God fully for healing.

Also I associated for some time with Faith Assembly who's Pastor Hobart Freeman taught it was sin to go to the doctor.

These were all Trins. Now when I started out in Oneness I heard of different ones who taught this. Elder Havens who I started out with taught it back then. Elder Donald Lance told me all his children were born at home.

Hess Shearer Pastor of the Apostolic Lighthouse encouraged this and discouraged doctors. I was told once he had a toothache pretty severe. The Brothers tried to talk him into going to the Dentist.

I was told he agreed on the condition he would not accept Novacaine.

I have always respected men and women who taught this way. I myself have not lived up to this but I certainly understand why people would teach trusting God for healing.

Even The Worldwide Church Of God started by Herbert Armstrong which was not even a Pentecostal Org used to teach it was wrong to go to doctors.

Its not taught that its wrong to just go to the doctor. Any of these groups would approach it another way. They believe if Christs atonement includes healing it would be just as wrong to seek it from something else as it would be to seek salvation anywhere but Christ.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 05-30-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:04 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

In Matthew 9:12, Jesus Christ said that sick people need a doctor...

In Proverbs 17:22, it says that medicine does us good.

Proverbs 18:9 says, "He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide."

Proverbs 18:9
Amplified Bible (AMP)
9..He who is loose and slack in his work is brother to him who is a destroyer and [a]he who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide.
Footnotes:
Proverbs 18:9 This verse so reads in The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament). Its statement squarely addresses the problem of whether one has a moral right to neglect his body by “letting nature take its unhindered course” in illness.


In 1 Timothy 5:23 the Apostle Paul encouraged Timothy, "drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities"

There is a passage in the book of Ecclesiasticus (also known as "The Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach" or just "Sirach") that speaks of medication and treatment by a doctor. This book is found in the 1611 King James Version and some newer than 1611 King James Version Bibles but was later deleted. It is also found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and in several other Bible versions.

Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15 reads:

1 Honour physicians for their services,
for the Lord created them;
2 for their gift of healing comes from the Most High,
and they are rewarded by the king.
3 The skill of physicians makes them distinguished,
and in the presence of the great they are admired.
4 The Lord created medicines out of the earth,
and the sensible will not despise them.
5 Was not water made sweet with a tree
in order that its power might be known?
6 And he gave skill to human beings
that the pharmacist might be glorified in his marvellous works.
7 By them the physician heals and takes away pain;
8 the pharmacist makes a mixture from them.
God’s works will never be finished;
and from him health spreads over all the earth.
9 My child, when you are ill, do not delay,
but pray to the Lord, and he will heal you.
10 Give up your faults and direct your hands rightly,
and cleanse your heart from all sin.
11 Offer a sweet-smelling sacrifice, and a memorial portion of choice flour,
and pour oil on your offering, as much as you can afford.
12 Then give the physician his place, for the Lord created him;
do not let him leave you, for you need him.
13 There may come a time when recovery lies in the hands of physicians,
14 for they too pray to the Lord
that he will grant them success in diagnosis
and in healing, for the sake of preserving life.
15 a man sins in the eyes of his Maker
if he defies the physician.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:07 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Here in Ohio, I know of one UPC minister (he was a sectional Presbyter) who taught it was wrong to go to a doctor. We knew people from his church. He wouldn't even go to a hospital to pray for people.


I also knew of one ALJC pastor who taught that

and another Ohio ALJC church where the women all had babies at home delivered by a midwife instead of going to a doctor or hospital.
I've never known of a a UPC or ALJC minister to teach that, so your experience was different than mine in that reguard. It was those ultracon 'apostolic churches' which had cult-like control over the people which practiced such a twisted 'gospel'. They very seldom fellowshipped with the UPC or ALJC and typically looked down on those organizations as not holding to the truth, especially the standards, and considered themselves the real 'apostolics'.
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:19 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

How many people die a year from doctors mis diagnosing them? Prescribing the wrong drug or mix of drugs? Far more than the number of people who die in a Pentecostal/Charismatic Church setting where they teach faith in God.
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:27 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
I've never known of a a UPC or ALJC minister to teach that, so your experience was different than mine in that reguard. It was those ultracon 'apostolic churches' which had cult-like control over the people which practiced such a twisted 'gospel'. They very seldom fellowshipped with the UPC or ALJC and typically looked down on those organizations as not holding to the truth, especially the standards, and considered themselves the real 'apostolics'.

I didn't name names or cities.

1. The UPC sectional Presbyter has been dead for years. His church was a couple hours from where we live. Some good friends of ours had moved to the Cincinnati area but some of their family was still in that city and going to that church. Our friends visited their family at Thanksgiving and one of the children was sick and was on the couch. When they visited again at Christmas the child was still on the couch. The parents were taken to court because they would not allow medical care for their children based on what they had been taught at that church. The pastor refused to go to court on their behalf. When the judge asked the mother why she would not take her child to a doctor she answered, "I did, judge, I took him to the Great Physician."

A young couple from that city and church moved into our city. My wife was babysitting and had to change the little boy's diaper. His scrotum was grotesquely huge and she was shocked. When she later asked the mother about it she told her that he had a hernia but they were trusting the Lord to heal it. One time we were talking and one of them (don't remember if it was the husband or wife now) said, "Bro. ------ has not been to a doctor in years." When I asked, "Well, where did he get his glasses?" I was told that that was not the same thing.

2. As far as I know one of the ALJC pastors is still alive. For several years I was sectional Youth Leader for the ALJC. We used to visit his church and it was commonly known that he preached against doctors and medicines. One time when we were there my wife overheard one of the saints apologizing to him because her sister was taken from a car accident in an ambulance to the hospital. She was explaining that someone called the police and an ambulance and she could not stop them from taking the woman to a hospital.

Another pastor told about how when the tornado hit that town in 1974, the pastor's wife had a lot of shattered glass embedded in her. The pastor played a tape of her screaming while they pulled those glass splinters out of her "but she didn't go to the doctor or to a hospital."

3. Another ALJC pastor in our section and his wife used to go to Florida each year and there they would see a doctor. They could not do it here in Ohio because a previous pastor had taught against doctors and medicine. This man and his wife are both dead now.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:28 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
I didn't name names or cities.

1. The UPC sectional Presbyter has been dead for years. His church was a couple hours from where we live. Some good friends of ours had moved to the Cincinnati area but some of their family was still in that city and going to that church. Our friends visited their family at Thanksgiving and one of the children was sick and was on the couch. When they visited again at Christmas the child was still on the couch. The parents were taken to court because they would not allow medical care for their children based on what they had been taught at that church. The pastor refused to go to court on their behalf. When the judge asked the mother why she would not take her child to a doctor she answered, "I did, judge, I took him to the Great Physician."

A young couple from that city and church moved into our city. My wife was babysitting and had to change the little boy's diaper. His scrotum was grotesquely huge and she was shocked. When she later asked the mother about it she told her that he had a hernia but they were trusting the Lord to heal it. One time we were talking and one of them (don't remember if it was the husband or wife now) said, "Bro. ------ has not been to a doctor in years." When I asked, "Well, where did he get his glasses?" I was told that that was not the same thing.

2. As far as I know one of the ALJC pastors is still alive. For several years I was sectional Youth Leader for the ALJC. We used to visit his church and it was commonly known that he preached against doctors and medicines. One time when we were there my wife overheard one of the saints apologizing to him because her sister was taken from a car accident in an ambulance to the hospital. She was explaining that someone called the police and an ambulance and she could not stop them from taking the woman to a hospital.

Another pastor told about how when the tornado hit that town in 1974, the pastor's wife had a lot of shattered glass embedded in her. The pastor played a tape of her screaming while they pulled those glass splinters out of her "but she didn't go to the doctor or to a hospital."

3. Another ALJC pastor in our section and his wife used to go to Florida each year and there they would see a doctor. They could not do it here in Ohio because a previous pastor had taught against doctors and medicine. This man and his wife are both dead now.
I don't doubt for one minute that what you say is true.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:30 PM
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BeenThinkin BeenThinkin is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Remind me never to ask you a question.



If only she was here!

BT
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:31 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Going to the doctor = sin????

Did I miss something but all the UC's I ever associated with were all about prayer and doctors.
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