Are we are under the commands of the first 5 books

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.

The two Greatest Commandments are Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
(Deu 6:5)

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(Lev 19:18)

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:35-40)

All the revealed Word of God, all of God's instruction to us, what theonomists call "God's Law", is based upon those two commandments. All of God's moral demands upon mankind are expressions in various circumstances of those two commands, to love God supremely and your neighbour as yourself.

This rules out selfishness. Sin is at its core selfishness, it is a refusal to love God supremely and to love one's neighbour as oneself. God's entire moral law can be summed up as "Love God with all you've got and love your neighbour as yourself." Since sin is transgression of the law, it necessarily follows that sin is selfishness and self centeredness. It is to love oneself above one's neighbour and above God. It is manifested by seeking one's own interests at the expense of God and others.

Many people think that because "love" is the greatest commandment, and that because "love is the fulfilling of the law", they may "love" God and others while dispensing with God's commandments. But this of course is nonsense. And in fact they themselves don't believe it. They themselves prove the lie, because they readily admit that for example loving your neighbour implies not stealing their property, or murdering them, or coveting their stuff. So they accept that the various commands of God are simply the ways to fulfill the command to love God and your neighbour, depending on the context and situation. Or to put it another way, the various commandments of God are simply expressions of HOW to love God and your neighbour in various situations and relations.

But as soon as one of those commandments interferes with their own personal wants and supposed interests, all of a sudden they find every possible way to NOT obey the command. As long as loving God and their neighbour is fulfilled in a way suitable to their own perceived self interests, all is well. But when the command requires them to deny themselves and take up their cross as it were, lo and behold "loving God and your neighbour" becomes some kind of SUBSTITUTE for the Divine instruction! How strange that loving God and one's neighbour is to be carried out by refusing to love God and one's neighbour in the context and in the manner deemed expedient by God!

So the antinomian exclaims "Oh! But I DO obey God! See here and here and there and there!" But do they really? No, they simply happen to obey God when it is convenient and when God's will just happens to align with their own. But as soon as God's will and their own depart, who do they follow? Their own will. So any obedience on their part is simply a matter of "coincidence". Much like the "blood of Jezreel" which led to the downfall of the House of Israel:

And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:4)

Jezreel ws the location where Jehu had Jezebel tossed to her death and where the entire lineage of Ahab was wiped out, all in obedience to the words of the prophet Elijah. And immediately after overthrowing the Ahab dynasty, Jehu executed all the priests and prophets of Baal. In return, God promised Jehu the throne of Israel and that his sons would reign up to the fourth generation:

And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel.
(2Ki 10:30)

So why would God be interested in avenging the blood of Jezreel, and causing not only the dynasty of Jehu to cease but the entire kingdom as well? Very simply, because Jehu carried out this "holy war" for his own interests:

Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel, and that were in Dan. And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin.
(2Ki 10:28-31)

Jehu's "zeal for Jehovah" was simply a zeal for his own advancement to the throne. God's will and Jehu's aligned in this respect. But in respect of the golden calves and the fake Jehovahism set up by Jereboam Jehu had no intention of dispensing with. THAT part of God's will was at cross purposes to Jehu's, so Jehu (being selfish even in his "zeal" for God) followed his own will rather than God's.

Note: what exactly was the sin of Jereboam which was the downfall of the House of Israel?

And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
(1Ki 12:26-33)

Jereboam created a substitute counterfeit for of Jehovahism. He didn't tell the people to worship Baal, at least not directly. Instead, he made some idols and said THAT was Jehovah who brought Israel out of Egypt. He abandoned the Divinely ordained Feast of Tabernacles and substituted in its place some invented manmade feast in the eighth month. All as part of the new worship of the elohim that brought Israel out of Egypt. He created a fake counterfeit version of the true religion. Sound familiar?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But then again, the antinomian also thinks only in terms of themself. They do not consider that perhaps God's law is meant for SOCIETY, not just individuals. Why? Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.

This is clearly demonstrated in the fact that modern antinomian "Christianity" is ALL about selling you a ticket to heaven. It's really all about YOU, the individual. Look at the sermons that are preached. Look at evangelistic efforts, all focused on scaring the sinner into being worried about suffering in hell and oh the glories of heaven they get to enjoy if they'll just sign up. It's all about the individual. Sermons galore reverberate in sanctuaries all across the planet, all about how God basically exists to help YOU deal with YOUR problems and make YOUR life "more abundant". "Bible studies" are all about YOUR problems and how God can solve them. "How to get the most out of your marriage." "How to get more money." "How to get your kids to obey you and stop making your life a living hell."

At least the prosperity preachers are kind of honest about what they are all about! But the rest? They cloak the self centered new religion calling itself Christianity with a garment of (mostly fake) piousness and "spirituality".

But it is really just all about "How to get me and my hind end into Paradise and away from any discomfort in the afterlife."

The truth is, Christianity is supposed to be the discipleship of the NATIONS. Is the individual involved and accounted for? Of course, since all nations are composed of individuals. But the bulk of the entire Bible isn't about YOU and YOUR PERSONAL HAPPINESS. The majority of the Bible is literally a Guide for MANKIND, for SOCIETY. This national, societal aspect of the Scripture is wholly ignored by practically the entirety of modern churchianity. And no wonder, since modern churchianity is nothing more than a money laundering operation and racketeering scheme pandering to people's selfishness to begin with. Just like the sin of Jereboam.

And so the modern antinomian lawless "Christianity" has no answer to the Globohomo ClownWorld (tm) currently engulfing the planet.

But the Bible does.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
(Rom 2:13-15)

Don’t think the laws the gentiles were naturally keeping was specifically the ten commandments. Instead, it was the essence of the law, it was the righteousness of the law.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:5-8)

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is what we have and because of that we have no need of the law. Exodus 21 talks about a master giving a Hebrew servant a wife, but the Hebrew servant is free to leave on the seventh year (but without the wife). The wicked master could give the wife to manipulate the Hebrew to stay in bondage to him. No written laws broken, but God sees the heart of that wicked master. That does not fulfill the righteousness of the law.

On the one hand, you often speak as if the old covenant was bondage and hard labour, and Christ came to give us liberty and freedom. But then on the other hand you say things like this, about how you think the new covenant "requires MORE out of us". So which one is it? And why do you seem to think in terms of God as being some kind of onerous taskmaster? Everything boils down to "do I HAVE to do such and thus?" with a lot of people, even though that was NEVER God's intent when He made man. I would have supposed that someone who loved God would be thinking more in terms of "how can I best model the will and character of God in my life?" instead of "what do I REALLY have to do? How much of God's instruction can I safely ignore and still make heaven my home?"

Have to’s is the very nature of the written laws. The new covenant believer has a new nature that causes a lifestyle of righteousness without the letter. Anytime you start operating from the letter, you cease from the Spirit.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You speak of this particular instruction as being some kind of "hard to understand" thing. And it is as if there is some kind of problem with the command itself. Either it is too hard, or too difficult, or does not require enough, or is too lax. But according to the apostle Paul, the problem isn't with the law of God, it is with YOU:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

(Rom 8:3)

Many of the laws given in the chapter I have referenced are tolerant of slavery. I personally feel like slavery was not in Gods plan for man, but because of the hardness of man's heart God gave laws regulating it. The problem is man from the onset of the law. Jesus solved this problem for us.

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(Gal 3:21)

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(Rom 7:7-14)

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The problem isn't with the law of God, or His commands, or His instructions. The problem is MAN. The problem is man is SINFUL, selfish, ungodly, and walks after the flesh. And therefore refuses to be subject to the law of God. God's law is spiritual, as we just read, but the carnal or natural man rejects the spiritual things of God (like His law):

As I have said, man is the reason for the law to begin with.

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
(Joh 8:43)

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14)

Lol, hint I am to carnal to comprehend the law keepers.

What is there that is so confusing about the particular command of God that is being asked about?

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

A man has a servant (male or female). If he strikes him (or her) with a rod and kills the servant, the man is guilty of murder. If however the servant is only shook up for a day or two, and thus unable to work, the owner of the servant is not liable to a fine or punishment, because the loss of the servant's work is itself the punishment. That is, the man doesn't have the services of his bondslave during their rest and recuperation period, which is itself counted as a loss to the owner.

Nobody in the West has such servants (at least not legally). So the actual execution of the law is not an issue. There are no legal slaves, so this statute doesn't enter the discussion.

Obviously though we can see a principle here, namely that even slave owners are not above the law of equity. Just because a person may be a slave, or a master, doesn't mean that each of them aren't made in the image of God, and therefore the laws regarding justice, homicide, etc apply to all. The lowest man is still a MAN with rights.

What is so interesting about this command is like many commands. God gives laws regulating something He didnt establish to begin with. Slavery was part of society then, but the concept of slavery goes against the teaching of equality that is all through Gods word. It is great that God gave the Hebrews laws that where relevant to there society. The problem is it isnt compatible to be literally applied in most of our society today, but we still can discern a principle in the law. I am all for adhering to the principles but whe you start mandating literal observance following the letter of the old covenant it is not aligned with NT doctrine.

And so we see that God's holy law surpasses the nonsense that passes for "law" invented by men. And we also see the indescribable insanity of the antinomian, who insists that Christ abolished this law and therefore would have NO LAW PROTECTING SERVANTS FROM ABUSE.

Jesus and his disciples taught us to treat one another with equality. I should not even be treating someone like they are a slave, but I am taught to treat others the way I desire to be treated.

Philemon 1:16
Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

Paul did not violate the legal system that was in place regarding slavery, but it is obvious how he felt about it.

But then again, the antinomian also thinks only in terms of themself. They do not consider that perhaps God's law is meant for SOCIETY, not just individuals. Why? Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.

Yes the law was written to a target society (ancient Israel). I am 100% for gleaning the principles from the Old Covenant, but we are not under the law given to ancient Israel. Selfishness or self-centeredness??? The views I have presented have nothing to do with selfishness. Loving your neighbor as yourself is not remotely selfish. Lawlessness??? I disagree with being under the Old Covenant legal system, but I am advocate for continuing in Jesus and the apostles teaching. I don't see the apostles teaching to continue in the laws of Moses.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The two Greatest Commandments are Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
(Deu 6:5)

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(Lev 19:18)

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:35-40)

All the revealed Word of God, all of God's instruction to us, what theonomists call "God's Law", is based upon those two commandments. All of God's moral demands upon mankind are expressions in various circumstances of those two commands, to love God supremely and your neighbour as yourself.

This rules out selfishness. Sin is at its core selfishness, it is a refusal to love God supremely and to love one's neighbour as oneself. God's entire moral law can be summed up as "Love God with all you've got and love your neighbour as yourself." Since sin is transgression of the law, it necessarily follows that sin is selfishness and self centeredness. It is to love oneself above one's neighbour and above God. It is manifested by seeking one's own interests at the expense of God and others.

Many people think that because "love" is the greatest commandment, and that because "love is the fulfilling of the law", they may "love" God and others while dispensing with God's commandments. But this of course is nonsense. And in fact they themselves don't believe it. They themselves prove the lie, because they readily admit that for example loving your neighbour implies not stealing their property, or murdering them, or coveting their stuff. So they accept that the various commands of God are simply the ways to fulfill the command to love God and your neighbour, depending on the context and situation. Or to put it another way, the various commandments of God are simply expressions of HOW to love God and your neighbour in various situations and relations.

But as soon as one of those commandments interferes with their own personal wants and supposed interests, all of a sudden they find every possible way to NOT obey the command. As long as loving God and their neighbour is fulfilled in a way suitable to their own perceived self interests, all is well. But when the command requires them to deny themselves and take up their cross as it were, lo and behold "loving God and your neighbour" becomes some kind of SUBSTITUTE for the Divine instruction! How strange that loving God and one's neighbour is to be carried out by refusing to love God and one's neighbour in the context and in the manner deemed expedient by God!

So the antinomian exclaims "Oh! But I DO obey God! See here and here and there and there!" But do they really? No, they simply happen to obey God when it is convenient and when God's will just happens to align with their own. But as soon as God's will and their own depart, who do they follow? Their own will. So any obedience on their part is simply a matter of "coincidence". Much like the "blood of Jezreel" which led to the downfall of the House of Israel:

This is where I disagree on interpretation. The laws given by Moses were specific to the nation of Israel. The laws given where relevant to Israel in the society that they lived. Sure the principles are forever, but the application is going to depend upon new circumstances that relate to each particular society. You would have us obeying laws to show love for God, that really shows no love to God (Obey the letter because it says so).

And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:4)

Jezreel ws the location where Jehu had Jezebel tossed to her death and where the entire lineage of Ahab was wiped out, all in obedience to the words of the prophet Elijah. And immediately after overthrowing the Ahab dynasty, Jehu executed all the priests and prophets of Baal. In return, God promised Jehu the throne of Israel and that his sons would reign up to the fourth generation:

And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel.
(2Ki 10:30)

So why would God be interested in avenging the blood of Jezreel, and causing not only the dynasty of Jehu to cease but the entire kingdom as well? Very simply, because Jehu carried out this "holy war" for his own interests:

Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel, and that were in Dan. And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin.
(2Ki 10:28-31)

Jehu's "zeal for Jehovah" was simply a zeal for his own advancement to the throne. God's will and Jehu's aligned in this respect. But in respect of the golden calves and the fake Jehovahism set up by Jereboam Jehu had no intention of dispensing with. THAT part of God's will was at cross purposes to Jehu's, so Jehu (being selfish even in his "zeal" for God) followed his own will rather than God's.

Note: what exactly was the sin of Jereboam which was the downfall of the House of Israel?

And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
(1Ki 12:26-33)

Jereboam created a substitute counterfeit for of Jehovahism. He didn't tell the people to worship Baal, at least not directly. Instead, he made some idols and said THAT was Jehovah who brought Israel out of Egypt. He abandoned the Divinely ordained Feast of Tabernacles and substituted in its place some invented manmade feast in the eighth month. All as part of the new worship of the elohim that brought Israel out of Egypt. He created a fake counterfeit version of the true religion. Sound familiar?

I am not supporting following a counterfeit, I am preaching to follow Jesus Christ (the only way). The story of Jereboam has no relevance to the discussion, are you wanting to start carrying up sacrifices to Jerusalem? I know that is not what you are meaning. Jesus fulfilled the law and we are to follow His teaching. We arent supposed to pick up where Israel left off, but simply do a better job keeping the law given Moses. We must understand the law of Moses was given to lead us to Christ and now we have gotten hold of the source of true righteousness.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This is clearly demonstrated in the fact that modern antinomian "Christianity" is ALL about selling you a ticket to heaven. It's really all about YOU, the individual. Look at the sermons that are preached. Look at evangelistic efforts, all focused on scaring the sinner into being worried about suffering in hell and oh the glories of heaven they get to enjoy if they'll just sign up.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Evidently you should have had this discussion with the apostle Paul before he wrote most of the NT. This world offers no hope and we are to preach about the hope found in Jesus Christ. The humility you speak of is not real.

Ephesians 5:29
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

We all naturally are self centered, and care about our eternal condition. Most the people who come to God realize their condition apart from God, and that is part of what brings them to repentance. If people where happy in sin they would never change.

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Jesus reached the people like Lazarus far better than the rich. Why? Because he came preaching hope to them.

It's all about the individual. Sermons galore reverberate in sanctuaries all across the planet, all about how God basically exists to help YOU deal with YOUR problems and make YOUR life "more abundant". "Bible studies" are all about YOUR problems and how God can solve them. "How to get the most out of your marriage." "How to get more money." "How to get your kids to obey you and stop making your life a living hell."

I never have preached prosperity doctrines.

Quick testimony:

my mother gave custody of me to my very poor grandparents at 2yo. I don't know who my father is. The pagan holiday of Christmas(lol) didn't involve a Christmas tree and presents for me. I can’t begin to explain the emotional and physical abuse I have experienced while in a Pentecostal home. I received the Holy Ghost as a child, but I allowed resentment for my misfortune to cause bitterness against God. I backslid, got out of the church, and was right before suicide before I realized that God was what I needed in my life. God doesn't take away all of our problems, but He does stick with us through it all even sometimes when we aren't faithful to Him. He gives hope that is something beyond this life. I can’t speak for all Christians, but I would rather think positive of the movement of the Church.

At least the prosperity preachers are kind of honest about what they are all about! But the rest? They cloak the self centered new religion calling itself Christianity with a garment of (mostly fake) piousness and "spirituality".

Our spiritual condition is not deteremined by spiritual gifts, but by spiritual fruit. Alot of things people call spirituality isn’t.

But it is really just all about "How to get me and my hind end into Paradise and away from any discomfort in the afterlife."

Not the way I would say it but I do want to make it.

The truth is, Christianity is supposed to be the discipleship of the NATIONS. Is the individual involved and accounted for? Of course, since all nations are composed of individuals. But the bulk of the entire Bible isn't about YOU and YOUR PERSONAL HAPPINESS. The majority of the Bible is literally a Guide for MANKIND, for SOCIETY. This national, societal aspect of the Scripture is wholly ignored by practically the entirety of modern churchianity. And no wonder, since modern churchianity is nothing more than a money laundering operation and racketeering scheme pandering to people's selfishness to begin with. Just like the sin of Jereboam.

And so the modern antinomian lawless "Christianity" has no answer to the Globohomo ClownWorld (tm) currently engulfing the planet.

But the Bible does.

Discipleship to Christ not Judaism.

[Amanah]

In Exodus, the 10 commandments were given as the law of covenant, and placed in the ark.

Israel immediately broke them.

The rest of the law, statues, ordinances, punishments, ect were then added, after Israel's transgressions.

I think it's like having a supreme court, judicial court, and legislative court. In fact, I think our laws were originally meant to be based on God's law.

Bro Esaias has better understanding then I do and can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I think it's like having a supreme court, judicial court, and legislative court. In fact, I think our laws were originally meant to be based on God's law.

Correct!

Isaiah 33:22 KJV
For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us.

An interesting quote:

The Old Testament was indeed considered as supplemented rather than supplanted by the New, but subject to this qualification, the Bible, although it consisted of not one book, but of many books, written at periods of time far removed from one another, and from different points of view, in divers tongues and in the literary forms peculiar to an ancient and Eastern civilization, was considered as the permanent expression of the divine will, and almost every text as an inspired oracle for the guidance of all men in all countries and at all times. Interpretation and criticism were practically unknown; and the histories of the early Semitic tribes, their prophetic exhortations, their poetry, lyric and dramatic, and their laws were all received on the same basis; and a text of the Bible, wherever it might be found, and whatever might be its logical connection, was regarded as an infallible authority. Indeed, in the fundamental laws of the Colonies of Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Haven and West New Jersey, the judges were commanded to inflict penalties according to the law of God.The study of the Scriptures was specially associated with the study of law. Chief Justice Fortescue, in his book de Laudibus, said of the judges, that after court "when they have taken their refreshments they spend the rest of the day in the study of the laws, reading of the Holy Scriptures, and other innocent amusements, at their pleasure."
(taken from "THE INFLUENCE OF BIBLICAL TEXTS UPON ENGLISH LAW", an address delivered before the Phi Beta Kappa and Sigma Xi Societies of the University of Pennsylvania on June 14, 1910, by John Marshall Gest. Text here ---> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...38oYkxP4IoDRsd )

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Don’t think the laws the gentiles were naturally keeping was specifically the ten commandments. Instead, it was the essence of the law, it was the righteousness of the law.

Your titanic efforts to not understand plain Scripture are undefeatable, I'll give you that.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This is clearly demonstrated in the fact that modern antinomian "Christianity" is ALL about selling you a ticket to heaven. It's really all about YOU, the individual. Look at the sermons that are preached. Look at evangelistic efforts, all focused on scaring the sinner into being worried about suffering in hell and oh the glories of heaven they get to enjoy if they'll just sign up. It's all about the individual. Sermons galore reverberate in sanctuaries all across the planet, all about how God basically exists to help YOU deal with YOUR problems and make YOUR life "more abundant". "Bible studies" are all about YOUR problems and how God can solve them. "How to get the most out of your marriage." "How to get more money." "How to get your kids to obey you and stop making your life a living hell."

At least the prosperity preachers are kind of honest about what they are all about! But the rest? They cloak the self centered new religion calling itself Christianity with a garment of (mostly fake) piousness and "spirituality".

But it is really just all about "How to get me and my hind end into Paradise and away from any discomfort in the afterlife."

The truth is, Christianity is supposed to be the discipleship of the NATIONS. Is the individual involved and accounted for? Of course, since all nations are composed of individuals. But the bulk of the entire Bible isn't about YOU and YOUR PERSONAL HAPPINESS. The majority of the Bible is literally a Guide for MANKIND, for SOCIETY. This national, societal aspect of the Scripture is wholly ignored by practically the entirety of modern churchianity. And no wonder, since modern churchianity is nothing more than a money laundering operation and racketeering scheme pandering to people's selfishness to begin with. Just like the sin of Jereboam.

And so the modern antinomian lawless "Christianity" has no answer to the Globohomo ClownWorld (tm) currently engulfing the planet.

But the Bible does.

We can further see this self centered thinking manifest itself in pop eschatology. "The world will get worse and worse and then the End(tm) shall come." People sitting around waiting on the rapture instead of obeying Christ and helping to spread His KINGDOM to all nations. They are perfectly willing to let the world go to hell in a handbasket (woven by them, even) instead of actively spearheading the advancement of Christ's DOMINION over all things.

Sodomite marriage on the political agenda? No worries, it's sad and lamentable but who really cares because this world's not my home I'm just a-passing through, right? Never mind the cesspool we're leaving to our grandkids as an inheritance.

Modern churchianity has no answer. It's clueless sycophants are only concerned with going to heaven (though none of them want to die to get there). They can't be bothered with things like GOD'S LAW FOR ALL NATIONS. And why should they be? They can't even stomach God regulating their work schedule, forget about God regulating the whole society!

But Biblical Christians understand that the Divine Command to REPENT applies to the Governor and the Judge, the King and the Pope, the banker and the candlestick maker, as much as to anyone else. And that repentance requires a cessation of disobedience to the Divine Law, a return to full, hearty, sincere obedience to every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. They understand what sin is, that it is transgression of the Divine Law. And thus they understand that it is SIN for any government to establish or even recognize sodomite marriage, no fault divorce, to allow adultery and fornication to go unpunished, to promote idolatry or to ignore blasphemy against God and His Christ, and so forth.

This is why antinomian churchianity is promoted and even subsidized by government. It produces fake "christians" with no message and no power to turn the world order upside down.

[coksiw]

The torah, or instructions, were meant to be obeyed as a grateful response to the grace of God, just like we are supposed to.

Exo 19:4-6 NKJV - (4) 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and [how] I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. (5) 'Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth [is] Mine. (6) 'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These [are] the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

Many of the things you see in there that you may find harsh like that of the servant, or the eye for eye so much quoted, were actually pretty advance for the time:

Deu 4:6 NKJV - (6) "Therefore be careful to observe [them]; for this [is] your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes, and say, 'Surely this great nation [is] a wise and understanding people.'

The entirety of the Pentateuch is profitable to us (2Ti 3:16). To begin with, the Apostles still considered the law as the standard for what it is right or wrong (John: 1Jo 3:4, Paul: Rom 3:20, James: Jas 2:8-11).

By the way, the entire law was spiritual according to Paul (Rom 7:14). The term "spiritual" at least from Paul perspective means "pertaining to the Spirit" or "the things of God". For Paul, "spiritual" is not in reference to some deep hidden abstract meaning. For Paul, a witch that is aware of spirits activity is not a "spiritual" person, but a carnal; it is not a reference to "immaterial" either. You can find it yourself by looking into the use of the word "spiritual" in his letters. It refers to the things pertaining to the Spirit of God.

The Apostles writings have plenty of examples of how they used the torah's examples and instructions, applying it directly, or indirectly by looking into the purpose of God in it expressing his will and reflecting his righteousness and holiness. You can also see how they used it for ethical matters (2Co 13:1). You can even see how the Apostles used controversial topics like capital punishment for things like sexual immorality and idolatry (e.g. Rom 1:32 1Jn 5:16; 1Cor 5:4-5; 1Cor 5:11). After all: "Rom 12:2 NKJV - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." You achieve that thru the work of the Spirit thru the written Word of the Spirit. After all, the Word is the sword of the Spirit.

Do you want to know how to apply it? Just see more details of how the Apostles used the law (from Gen to Deut) to teach to the churches. The book "Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament" can help you to find tons of those examples.