1Corinthians: Instructions for the Church

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

In most cases I don't particularly feel comfortable with women preachers.Although, 1Cor. 14:34 doesn't seem to be consistent with the harmony of scriptures if taken at face value.

Romans 16:1
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a “servant” of the church which is at Cenchrea:



There are too many cases of women used to prophesy to men to not at least consider alternate views.

Also . . .

I don’t mean to put words in your mouth but, it seems that you are saying that this passage is not inspired by the Holy Ghost and is in fact NOT in harmony with the Bible.

So, if this is your conclusion, should we disregard this portion of scripture?

Perhaps remove it from our Bible?

Do you believe it is not truly “the commandment of the Lord”?

Please elaborate.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Also . . .

I don’t mean to put words in your mouth but, it seems that you are saying that this passage is not inspired by the Holy Ghost and is in fact NOT in harmony with the Bible.

So, if this is your conclusion, should we disregard this portion of scripture?

Perhaps remove it from our Bible?

Do you believe it is not truly “the commandment of the Lord”?

Please elaborate.

I certainly believe it is inspired but it must be properly understood in the context it was written. I am not certain, but I feel like the church in Corinth had a specific issue involving women who were being disorderly. Generally, women didn't likely receive the same emphasis on education as men.

Imagine trying to teach small children Sunday School and college and career-age students together. Either you are going to go over the children's head or you are going to bore the others with things that are too elementary. During the church assembling together women were to be quite and listen. If they didn't understand they should simply ask their husbands at home, rather than holding up the discussion until they had clarity.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I certainly believe it is inspired but it must be properly understood in the context it was written. I am not certain, but I feel like the church in Corinth had a specific issue involving women who were being disorderly. Generally, women didn't likely receive the same emphasis on education as men.

I agree that context is crucial. However, I disagree that this is possibly an educational issue. It it were true that education were the issue, I believe Paul would have said “let the ignorant (or uneducated) be silent in church”. That’s not what he said. He defined his instructions according to gender, not according to level of education. After all, men were very likely susceptible to having different levels of education in Biblical times (are these not Galileans?) Paul was highly educated, while the fishermen were not so much.

Another thing is that the language is plain. It’s not like Paul is speaking in riddles here. He plainly says what he means, in my opinion. I think you may be overthinking the interpretation. Aaand it seems to be harmonious with scripture (to me at least).

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Imagine trying to teach small children Sunday School and college and career-age students together. Either you are going to go over the children's head or you are going to bore the others with things that are too elementary. During the church assembling together women were to be quite and listen. If they didn't understand they should simply ask their husbands at home, rather than holding up the discussion until they had clarity.

Perhaps we should allow the women to teach the children (which IS in harmony with scripture).

[Amanah]

My thoughts this morning on women being silent in church.

I think it's not that woman can't speak in church, they can be used in the gifts, in testimonials, and in teaching other women and children, but, if women are to be submissive and subject to their husbands, should they then be in an authoritative position over other women's husbands? I think not. It would be disorderly.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

My thoughts this morning on women being silent in church.

I think it's not that woman can't speak in church, they can be used in the gifts, in testimonials, and in teaching other women and children, but, if women are to be submissive and subject to their husbands, should they then be in an authoritative position over other women's husbands? I think not. It would be disorderly.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am inclined to agree with you. It seems sooo reasonable. It also is much more politically correct. I wanted to agree just to be nice.

However . . .

There’s this.

[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It is not permitted. It is in fact a shame.

So I’m going to stick with the text. I sincerely hope you aren’t offended.

Because you know, if we just change the portion that we don’t agree with?

Where do we stop?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Thank you for your thoughts. I am inclined to agree with you. It seems sooo reasonable. It also is much more politically correct. I wanted to agree just to be nice.

However . . .

There’s this.

[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It is not permitted. It is in fact a shame.

So I’m going to stick with the text. I sincerely hope you aren’t offended.

Because you know, if we just change the portion that we don’t agree with?

Where do we stop?

I'm not offended in the least.
Does your wife remain silent the whole time she is at church?
Are there any Sunday school classes with female teachers?
Any female greeters or choir members?
Do any females in your church ever speak at all while in church?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm not offended in the least.
Does your wife remain silent the whole time she is at church?
Are there any Sunday school classes with female teachers?
Any female greeters or choir members?
Do any females in your church ever speak at all while in church?

Our church is guilty on all charges. The point of this thread is not that I’m right, but that we somehow believe we are right, in spite of contradicting scripture. In this case concerning women speaking in church.

I will say that this issue in itself is the low hanging fruit, and is not even one of the main ones that concern me.

What about preachers that “break out speaking in tongues” with no expectation of an interpretation? Are they edifying themselves as Paul indicates in this passage? It seems to be the case (to me at least).

Really, the issue is that we tend to emphasize certain passages, while diminishing the value of others. Some we even ignore completely. I guess it’s just human nature?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Our church is guilty on all charges. The point of this thread is not that I’m right, but that we somehow believe we are right, in spite of contradicting scripture. In this case concerning women speaking in church.

I will say that this issue in itself is the low hanging fruit, and is not even one of the main ones that concern me.

What about preachers that “break out speaking in tongues” with no expectation of an interpretation? Are they edifying themselves as Paul indicates in this passage? It seems to be the case (to me at least).

Really, the issue is that we tend to emphasize certain passages, while diminishing the value of others. Some we even ignore completely. I guess it’s just human nature?

It's not a bad idea to examine how we do things.

[good samaritan]

Judges 4:4-5
4......And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.
5......And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Generally, women were not usually leaders in Israel, but in some cases, God did use them in leadership roles that required them to speak in the congregation. God would not cause women to do something that is sinful. Also, I know of several testimonies of pioneers in 20th-century Pentecostalism that women began churches in my local area for lack of men doing it.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Judges 4:4-5
4......And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.
5......And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Generally, women were not usually leaders in Israel, but in some cases, God did use them in leadership roles that required them to speak in the congregation. God would not cause women to do something that is sinful. Also, I know of several testimonies of pioneers in 20th-century Pentecostalism that women began churches in my local area for lack of men doing it.

I don’t know, but it seems that this is Old Covenant. Under the Old Covenant God ordered the sacrifice of animals. Under the new, we don’t. And we don’t say that they did it back then, so we might should encourage the same today.

In the New Covenant, Paul says it is a shame for women to speak in church. It is not permitted. He also says that the law also says so. I’m not sure where. Does anyone know? Paul says it is a commandment from the Lord. It sounds serious.

From a statistical standpoint, the word prophetess occurs only eight times in the Bible. Two of these in the New Testament. The male form (prophet) occurs more than five hundred times for what it’s worth.

The feminine word deaconess does not appear in the Bible, at least not in the KJV. (Deacon five times.)

Another thing, Deborah declares that . . .

[9] And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.

Notice that Deborah doesn’t say that God will deliver Sisera unto her hand, no, she brings gender into the equation. She does say that the victory will not bring honor to Barak, she says that God will deliver Sisera into the hand of a WOMAN.

Is it just me? Or is there some shame implicated in this passage? Barak certainly doesn’t seem to be a valiant and courageous man if he won’t go to war unless “a woman” goes with him.

Aaaand if a woman is allowed to preach, but only if a man refuses, or is not available, wouldn’t it be proper for her to forbear preaching if a man does become available?

Just some thoughts.