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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 03-11-2007, 12:46 AM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseus View Post
God has already said the sinning soul that will not repent will DIE.

God WILL burn up the "chaff", and the Bible describes the wicked as CHAFF that shall be burnt with unquenchable fire, and blown off the scene by the wind of God's judgement. (see Psalm 1, for example...)



Wrong. God will defeat His enemies by destroying them. He says so plainly over and over again in His Word. We are to forgive our brother when he comes to us and says "I repent", even if he does this 490 times in one day.

We cannot judge God's righteous judgement against sin and wickedness by our own standards. Ask the people of Sodom...


Yes, and thus your false doctrine of universalism is necessarily false, because it denies the justice of God, contradicts His own declarations on the very subject, makes a mockery of sin, and makes the cross of Jesus an unnecessary waste... since Christ died to give us eternal life - and since you believe everyone will live forever anyway...



Nonsense. Your denial of free will is denied by your actions everyday, for you live life as if you had free will, and could not live life as if you did not, no matter how strenuously you object to it on a theoretical basis.

All those who deny free will are silly, and their own lives are a 24/7/365 refutation of their own nonsensical doctrine.
God's severity is in every case an act of mercy and love, just like a human parent's actions are for the ultimate good of their children. God shows His mercy thru His love and his severity. His justice is not separate from His love and mercy, it is one and the same.

Your freewill is very narrowly defined within the boundaries that God set-up in making you who you are. Your freewill is restricted by all that makes you who you are, and who you are was decided by God. You are no more a free moral agent than you are a goose.

Your depiction of universalism is completely without basis in fact, it does absolutely NONE of what you accuse. I will ask Ezekial of Sodom, because he says Sodom will be restored. National judgment and earthly destruction does not describe Sodom's final end, or any other people's end.

God will eventually redeem what is His out of every nation, people and tribe, and that is the souls of men. What is burned is all the chaff and dross that has attached to them by living in a fallen world, that was set-up on purpose by God Himself for His own reasons and purpose. The wheat and the gold that comes out of the fire is His own creation, the souls of men.

You were born a sinner because of your father Adam (by NO fault of your own), you are reconciled to God because of righteous Jesus (by NO merit of your own). You can walk in the broadway wasting and perishing away, or you can enter in at the "strait gate" and reap all that has already been accomplished by the blood of Jesus. This is "good news" the traditional view is the "worst possible news".
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2007, 05:32 AM
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Scott Hutchinson Scott Hutchinson is offline
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How does universalism deal with the word damnation? How does who embraces it inclusion explain it?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2007, 06:46 AM
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2007, 07:14 AM
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Why did Jesus give the promise of eternal life, if everyone already had eternal life, only, it was just a matter of where you was going to spend eternal life?

Jerry Moon
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  #25  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:13 AM
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Dan 12:1-3
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
KJV
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  #26  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:41 AM
Eliseus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelationist View Post
Why did Jesus give the promise of eternal life, if everyone already had eternal life, only, it was just a matter of where you was going to spend eternal life?

Jerry Moon
EXACTLY.
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  #27  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:43 AM
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and can you explain everlasting contempt?
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:51 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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I am laying in bed with my laptop getting over surgery but I wanted to write what my Portuguese Bible says,
(Daniel 12:2) - E muitos dos que dormem no pó da terra ressuscitarão, uns para vida eterna, e outros para vergonha e desprezo eterno.
(Daniel 12:3) - Os que forem sábios, pois, resplandecerão como o fulgor do firmamento; e os que a muitos ensinam a justiça, como as estrelas sempre e eternamente.

it says eternal life or eternal scorn or shame....

Does eternal mean eternal?
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  #29  
Old 03-11-2007, 12:25 PM
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Beard Beard is offline
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where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched....
amen Sister Alvear....
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2007, 02:38 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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They will awake unto judgment. They will be cast into hell where they will eventually die. As the righteous enter eternity and begin the work of being Priests to the nations everything will be changed. Nations will be full of people who obey YHWH.

At times they will be made to go out and look upon what was once the burning Gehenna.

22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:22-24

They shall be an abhoring to all flesh. They are held in contempt throughout eternity. What is it the people of the World look upon? THEIR CARCASSES. DEAD BODIES.

They are in eternal contempt because they TRANSGRESSED against YHWH. That does not mean they will be alive.
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