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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:50 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
cool. thanks.

I would still like to see him posting here.
Much as I like Dan Seagraves, I would not like to see him posting here. Some would like opportunity to grill him rather than learn. Much rather that he become even more involved with official publications and educational venues that the symposiums and UGST provide.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:52 PM
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It would be a coup if Seagraves ends up at Great Lakes University.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #3  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:07 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by Thad View Post
I have high respect for Bro Seagraves and If this Question offends anyone I am hoping and asking that the thread be deleted " If it offends your Brother".......
anyhow, I know that he use to have a site where people could ask him Bible Questions and there was some commotion about the fact that he eluded to what would be considered the Old " light doctrine".

Is it wrong to believe in the light doctrine? can you be considered a 3 stepper and believe in it ?
what exactly is it ? If my memory serves me right tonight, I thought it was where only those Baptized in Jesus Name will make it in the rapture? all others will stay through the wrath of God in the tribulation and then be the servant of those who were bapt. In JN ?
All these people will be those who walked in all they knew and were not given deeper revelation by God.

what scriptures do they use for this Doctrine? I'd be interested in reading up on it - thanks
The "old" light doctrine? It's pretty current based on the number of preachers around today who believe it.

You're either saved or not.
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:20 AM
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Pastor Keith Pastor Keith is offline
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The Role of Faith in Justification

Presented by Daniel Segraves

The doctrine of justification found in the New Testament is rooted in Abraham’s experience, who “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness” (Romans 4:3). New Testament believers are said to stand in solidarity with Abraham – the father of all who believe – in justification.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised (Romans 4:11-12).

The event in view in Romans 4:3 is recorded in Genesis 15:5-6:
Then He brought him outside and said, ‘Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.’ And He said to him, ‘So shall your descendants be.’ And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham’s only response to God’s promise at this point was that “he believed in the LORD.” The verb “!ma”, translated “believed,” indicates that Abraham trusted God to keep His promise. It is significant for the doctrine of justification that no other response was expected or possible at this point. Although the genuineness of Abraham’s faith was later demonstrated in a tangible way as he offered Isaac, it serves Paul’s purpose to focus on the fact that Abraham was justified apart from and prior to works. Even circumcision, although it was a command of God, was a “sign,” “a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised” (Romans 4:11).
Paul’s point is that the only requirement for justification is genuine faith. Although faith results in obedience to God’s commands, justification occurs at the point
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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Another portion:

The validity of Abraham’s faith was not questioned because there was no active demonstration of that faith. And Abraham’s justification did not await an opportunity for him to show the genuineness of his faith by obedience. Although genuine faith in God will result in obedience to God, the faith is genuine before obedience. This is precisely Paul’s point. Since the faith is genuine, whatever benefit accrues to faith is enjoyed from the moment of faith. In Abraham’s case – and in the case of all who share Abraham’s faith – that benefit is justification.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2007, 03:48 PM
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Whagt does GLU stand for?
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Whole Hearted View Post
Whagt does GLU stand for?
Great Lakes University.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad View Post
I have high respect for Bro Seagraves and If this Question offends anyone I am hoping and asking that the thread be deleted " If it offends your Brother".......
anyhow, I know that he use to have a site where people could ask him Bible Questions and there was some commotion about the fact that he eluded to what would be considered the Old " light doctrine".

Is it wrong to believe in the light doctrine? can you be considered a 3 stepper and believe in it ?
what exactly is it ? If my memory serves me right tonight, I thought it was where only those Baptized in Jesus Name will make it in the rapture? all others will stay through the wrath of God in the tribulation and then be the servant of those who were bapt. In JN ?
All these people will be those who walked in all they knew and were not given deeper revelation by God.

what scriptures do they use for this Doctrine? I'd be interested in reading up on it - thanks
Thad, there are several in the UPC who hold to some form of this doctrine. It is also called Inclusivism too. I hold to a modified view of the latter actually and would agree with Norris and Haywood for the most part. I think this issue, alone, is one that can divide or unite the most strange of bedfellows rather quickly though. I will be careful.
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:45 PM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
Thad, there are several in the UPC who hold to some form of this doctrine. It is also called Inclusivism too. I hold to a modified view of the latter actually and would agree with Norris and Haywood for the most part. I think this issue, alone, is one that can divide or unite the most strange of bedfellows rather quickly though. I will be careful.
So then .... does this mean Sab that you believe it's possible there will be those raptured who have not spoken in tongues or been baptized in Jesus name?
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  #10  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
So then .... does this mean Sab that you believe it's possible there will be those raptured who have not spoken in tongues or been baptized in Jesus name?
Oh do I bite the bait or no? Hmmmm...I'll put up a little fight. My answer lies in this text below.

"For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (13) (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; (14) for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, (15) who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them ) (16) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. (Romans 2:12-16 NKJV)
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