Bishop Wright's Shame Seminar Rides Into TX

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by DAII

Video one glaring statement: Christians do no have shame because they struggle with sin. People struggle with sin because they have shame. Shame is the root cause of ALL self-destructive behavior.

this guy hasn't a clue to what he's talking about...more self-appointed ignorant blind leading...

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by DAII

But I think that the very bane of existence for the Wesleyan- Holiness- Pentecostal tradition is the doctrine of subsequence that eventually fleshed out. There is always "something more" that hinders a move of God. Whether it's a frenzied moment of sanctification, baptism by fire, baptism of the Holy Spirit only through tongues and on and on - or to those who must get to the measure of being truly Apostolic.

When do we rest wholly on His words: It is finished?

never. everybody's looking for something they don' have.

[staysharp]

what's really funny is his endorsement come from Greg Godwin of "Borat" fame. lol

[DAII]

Originally Posted by staysharp

this guy hasn't a clue to what he's talking about...more self-appointed ignorant blind leading...

I've got to think that self-destructive and unhealthy shame ... is symptomatic of a heart issue ... not causal ...

I would propose that a focus on self and the temporal in disobedience to His Word, is what sin is rooted in ..
the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life ... most definitely are not of the Father. (1 John 2:16)

The shame related to sin that we feel, at first, serves as a reminder... an alarm installed by God, per se... just as pain, fear, worry, anxiety .... , that we have not pleased God or relied on Him but have sought to serve ourselves. (See Adam and Eve covering their shame before God)

I also think a distinction between shame before God and shame before man should be discussed in such a setting. There is shame that is linked to the mores of a culture. For our culture a 14 -15 year old girl that is pregnant and even married to an older man ... is saturated and attached with many layers of shame ... yet in some other cultures this is normal ... she is viewed as woman.

The way this is presented ... I'd have to say CW must agree that the shame related to shaving one's hair as a female ... is not a sin ... as many have equated sin with shame as being synonymous ... as found in how those of the uncut hair doctrine interpret 1 Cor. 11.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

Video one glaring statement: Christians do no have shame because they struggle with sin. People struggle with sin because they have shame. Shame is the root cause of ALL self-destructive behavior.

Video 12, 13 and 14 talk about when he was sexually molested as a child and how his mother's reaction to it, when he didn't know what was really going on, affected him all of his life. Things, back then, they didn't talk about, but it never fixed anything.

You need to find out what he is actually talking about, Daniel.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Video 12, 13 and 14 talk about when he was sexually molested as a child and how his mother's reaction to it, when he didn't know what was really going on, affected him all of his life. Things, back then, they didn't talk about, but it never fixed anything.

You need to find out what he is actually talking about, Daniel.

There's no doubt that our experiences inform our opinions, PO. I'd suspected he had dealt with incredible amounts of shame as he has alluded to dealing with it during the 1980's ... that said ... in teaching this to the people of God ... in teaching any subject ... we must be careful to define our terms ...so that we know what we are addressing ... not bring confusion or even possible frustration, not to proof text ... etc.

I hear some good teaching thus far in some of the statements and some faulty premises and conclusions as well.

Shame is not also as all encompassing as he has painted it ... that's where a clear bias might be affecting him ... here.

I know when we examine our feelings and emotions ... they are intertwined with our experiences and even our sinful nature and thoughts that at time "rise up" ... in unraveling it we must try to be precise and bible based ... with a backdrop that the heart of man is wicked and perverse ... who shall know it? Our God does.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by DAII

There's no doubt that our experiences inform our opinions, PO. I'd suspected he had dealt with incredible amounts of shame as he has alluded to dealing with it during the 1980's ... that said ... in teaching this to the people of God ... in teaching any subject ... we must be careful to define our terms ...so that we know what we are addressing ... not bring confusion, not to proof text ... etc.

I hear some good teaching thus far in some of the statements and some faulty premises and conclusions as well.

Shame is not also as all encompassing as he has painted it ... that's where a clear bias might be affecting him ... here.

I know when we examine our feelings and emotions ... they are intertwined with our experiences and even our sinful nature and thoughts that at time "rise up" ... in unraveling it we must try to be precise and bible based ... with a backdrop that the heart of man is wicked and perverse ... who shall know it? Our God does.

For example his frame of reference is sexual abuse and all that entails... but then alludes to the shame/dishonor that is a part of the holistic code in Asian culture and ... the listener might believe this broad brush of shame is one and the same .... there are gradients, hues, shades ... and distinctions.

I think there the latter form is very much influenced culturally and may not be entirely negative, per se.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

There's no doubt that our experiences inform our opinions, PO. I'd suspected he had dealt with incredible amounts of shame as he has alluded to dealing with it during the 1980's ... that said ... in teaching this to the people of God ... in teaching any subject ... we must be careful to define our terms ...so that we know what we are addressing ...

I hear some good teaching thus far in some of the statements and some faulty premises and conclusions as well.

Shame is not also as all encompassing as he has painted it ... that's where a clear bias might be affecting him ... here.

I know when we examine our feelings and emotions ... they are intertwined with our experiences and even our sinful nature and thoughts that at time "rise up" ... in unraveling it we must try to be precise and bible based ... with a backdrop that the heart of man is wicked and perverse ... who shall know it? Our God does.

Daniel,
I am only at video 14 and thus far, he seems to be progressing toward an overall point of deep hurt we can't seem to let go of. He said that after that experience he tried to be good, but when people told him he was good, he never believed it and brought that into his marriage and into his ministry.

As much as you want to hurt this man, he is going somewhere valid with this seminar coming up and it will help a whole lot of people.

I have some deep hurts from my past that have affected me all of my life, not on the same level as he did, but it's there. I have been blessed by his message thus far.

You will find, to your consternation, that in video 13 the Lord directs him go to a meeting where LS is preaching because he has a word for him, which he did. Even if we don't agree with LS's HMH doctrine, he has been used of God, which Prax will even attest to.

I plan on listening to all of the clips, but will have to stagger that out when my husband isn't here. He doesn't like to listen to on-line preaching.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Daniel,
I am only at video 14 and thus far, he seems to be progressing toward an overall point of deep hurt we can't seem to let go of. He said that after that experience he tried to be good, but when people told him he was good, he never believed it and brought that into his marriage and into his ministry.

As much as you want to hurt this man, he is going somewhere valid with this seminar coming up and it will help a whole lot of people.

I have some deep hurts from my past that have affected me all of my life, not on the same level as he did, but it's there. I have been blessed by his message thus far.

You will find, to your consternation, that in video 13 the Lord directs him go to a meeting where LS is preaching because he has a word for him, which he did. Even if we don't agree with LS's HMH doctrine, he has been used of God, which Prax will even attest to.

I plan on listening to all of the clips, but will have to stagger that out when my husband isn't here. He doesn't like to listen to on-line preaching.

Preposterous and offensive accusation ... more of the "heart peeking"... PO if you're going down this rabbit trail and flopping again, then ... log off or try the FH. Nor will I respond to you anymore.

If you want to discuss the message in it's entirety ... not just hormonally or "emotionally"... but as the Berean you claim you are ... step back and examine it all ... lest in the moment God's Word and truth are adulterated.

[aegsm76]

I believe the fixation on shame may come from his own personal experiences.
This could be good for others suffering from the same problems.