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baptism in water, invalid baptism, jesus name only, no jesus name

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  #1  
Old 03-31-2018, 03:45 PM
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TyronePalmer TyronePalmer is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post

Phillip's encounter withe Ethiopian eunuch verifies this:

Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
(Acts 8:35-37)

The eunuch could not be baptised by himself, he required Phillip to do it. And he asks "what hinders me?" That is, what objections are there that would prevent me from being baptised? And Phillip gave him the prerequisite: IF you believe with all your heart THEN YOU MAY BE BAPTISED, but NOT UNLESS YOU BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART. If the eunuch did not believe with all his heart then Phillip would have no AUTHORITY to baptise, and would have REFUSED TO BAPTISE him. And the eunuch's sins would have been RETAINED.
The text does not say that Philip invoked the name of Jesus, it was the Eunuch's belief and invocation of the name of Jesus, that caused Philip to respond by getting down in the water and baptizing him.

So if Philip did not invoke the name of Jesus is the Eunuch's baptism valid? Or maybe he did but it's just not recorded.
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Old 03-31-2018, 03:51 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post
The text does not say that Philip invoked the name of Jesus, it was the Eunuch's belief and invocation of the name of Jesus, that caused Philip to respond by getting down in the water and baptizing him.

And the Eunuch's invocation was the only one needed for his sins to be forgiven in baptism. Philip's invocation , whatever it was, was incidental.

So if Philip did not invoke the name of Jesus is the Eunuch's baptism valid?

He had been invoking the name of Jesus all through the Bible study. If he did not do it while dunking the guy, that did not make the baptism any less "in the name of Jesus".

Or maybe he did but it's just not recorded.
Sorry, I know you weren't talking to me.
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2018, 03:55 PM
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TyronePalmer TyronePalmer is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sorry, I know you weren't talking to me.
Totally agree with you!
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:23 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post
The text does not say that Philip invoked the name of Jesus, it was the Eunuch's belief and invocation of the name of Jesus, that caused Philip to respond by getting down in the water and baptizing him.

So if Philip did not invoke the name of Jesus is the Eunuch's baptism valid? Or maybe he did but it's just not recorded.
You cannot prove Phillip did NOT speak the name of Jesus, which is what you would have to do for your point to be valid.

I brought up the eunuch to prove that baptism requires two people, and that baptism can be refused to someone on the basis of a defective profession of faith. That is all.

James 2:7 proves the name is invoked upon or over the believer. So does Acts 15:17. The Aaronic blessing proves the name of the LORD is put upon His people via an actual oral invocation of the ministry. The Greek text of Deuteronomy 28:9-10 proves that the phrase "called by My Name" is a Hebraism referring to having had the name of Jehovah actually invoked upon or called upon the people.

Jesus did not authorise the trinitarian baptism or its formula. Therefore, the trinitarian baptism and its formula cannot be performed "in the authority of Christ" (since He never authorised it).

The historical record confirms all this, that the trinitarian baptism and its formula were post apostolic developments derived entirely from trinitarian theological developments, and that the original formula was in the name of Jesus Christ.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:38 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
You cannot prove Phillip did NOT speak the name of Jesus, which is what you would have to do for your point to be valid.


Oh my. I think you have this backwards. YOU cannot prove Phillip uttered a baptismal invocation. I believe he did. But I cannot prove it.

I brought up the eunuch to prove that baptism requires two people, and that baptism can be refused to someone on the basis of a defective profession of faith. That is all.

James 2:7 proves the name is invoked upon or over the believer.

Not in the least. The word baptism is not mentioned in James 2:7.

So does Acts 15:17. The Aaronic blessing proves the name of the LORD is put upon His people via an actual oral invocation of the ministry. The Greek text of Deuteronomy 28:9-10 proves that the phrase "called by My Name" is a Hebraism referring to having had the name of Jehovah actually invoked upon or called upon the people.


Oh for crying out loud. This was a prophecy. In fact, all of this argument came about when Cornelius received the HOLY GHOST AKA The Spirit of Adoption. That is when Gentiles began to bear his name. When was this "calling the name of God" by priests over people institutionalized by God as an ongoing act? This is the crux of your thesis and it crumbles like a house of cards.

Jesus did not authorise the trinitarian baptism or its formula. Therefore, the trinitarian baptism and its formula cannot be performed "in the authority of Christ" (since He never authorised it).

Jesus never instituted ANY "formula" for a baptizer to utter.

The historical record confirms all this, that the trinitarian baptism and its formula were post apostolic developments derived entirely from trinitarian theological developments, and that the original formula was in the name of Jesus Christ.

And that error sprang from the previous error that the baptizer saying the name Jesus over someone cleanses them from sin and brings regeneration. It got all the attention off of faith and Christ's exaltation and put the attention on formulas.

Last edited by Originalist; 03-31-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:54 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Oh my. I think you have this backwards. YOU cannot prove Phillip uttered a baptismal invocation. I believe he did. But I cannot prove it.
Here we go again! Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel?

Bro, everyone can prove that Jesus was called over the neophyte. It is New Testament understanding that a baptizer is required to fulfill all righteousness. That the same as we casting out devils with the name of Jesus invoked and healings performed with the name of Jesus invoked, the same goes for baptism. Tyrone please you need to be baptized in Jesus name, re-baptized with the name of Jesus spoken over you. If you refuse it will only be due to your stubborn and prideful heart. You knew you were on a forum where everyone baptizes in Jesus name with the name of Jesus Christ being invoked over the baptized. If you say you are now in shock and awe over this than you are a dishonest liar. Therefore you will be unable to be dealt with by any means. Jesus' name was invoked over the baptized. You had to believe with all your mind that Jesus is the Christ, and then be baptized by a minister who would then invoke the name of Jesus over you.

James 2:7 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
7 Is it not they who slander and blaspheme that precious name by which you are distinguished and called [the name of Christ invoked in baptism]?
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  #7  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:51 PM
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

By the way, you used the word "liturgical" incorrectly. EVERY church is liturgical, some more complex than others. Liturgy is simply "what a congregation does when they come together to worship". It is from Greek, leiturgos, and means the work (ergos) of the people (laos). That is to say, the activity of the congregation in divine service or "worship".
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:55 PM
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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By the way, you used the word "liturgical" incorrectly. EVERY church is liturgical, some more complex than others. Liturgy is simply "what a congregation does when they come together to worship". It is from Greek, leiturgos, and means the work (ergos) of the people (laos). That is to say, the activity of the congregation in divine service or "worship".
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2018, 06:47 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

Guys, just be baptized, and baptize, in Jesus name.

I don't get the problem.
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  #10  
Old 03-31-2018, 06:53 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: No Jesus Name Invoked, No Valid Baptism?

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Guys, just be baptized, and baptize, in Jesus name.

I don't get the problem.
I think it is healthy for Apostolics to revisit this issue to examine if we've really been faithful ro biblical intention.
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