We Must Rethink A Few Things

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

When fellowship is broken, effort is fragmented, and the cohesive structure crumbles there is a great loss of strength in worldwide quest for souls. Further, when fellowship is broken there is untold amount of hurt, suspicion, distrust that is seen in so many ways even right down to famlies on each side of the diviide. The effects are so far reaching that it is impossible to quantify in one short note. It will take volumes to fully disclose the great hurt in the kingdom of God and famlies that is sure to follow.

I thought that this was the kind of destruction you were talking about and I know firsthand the negative effects that division and schism causes.

But the truth is, it happens. Has always happened and will continue to happen. God, of course sees it all and saw it all even before time began. And the Church continues on. Thank God for that.

[stmatthew]

When the sin of politics enter into the org, it ceases to be divine. The bible speaks that we are to be subject one to another. I believe that means that those that are close to us should be the ones we subject ourselves to and be accountable to. They are the ones that know us in our private and personal life, and can be more objective in speaking words of restoration and reconciliation, and at times words of rebuke and correction to us when we need it. A DS that may only know your name will not be a good person to be holding you accountable.


I could also add to the above that there are times that the System is defective, as it is in TN, and accountability becomes subjective to who you know.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

When the sin of politics enter into the org, it ceases to be divine. The bible speaks that we are to be subject one to another. I believe that means that those that are close to us should be the ones we subject ourselves to and be accountable to. They are the ones that know us in our private and personal life, and can be more objective in speaking words of restoration and reconciliation, and at times words of rebuke and correction to us when we need it. A DS that may only know your name will not be a good person to be holding you accountable.


I could also add to the above that there are times that the System is defective, as it is in TN, and accountability becomes subjective to who you know.

Are you saying that politics is sinful or that it can become sinful?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Are you saying that politics is sinful or that it can become sinful?

Can become. To me politics is a vehicle that if used by men of integrity can promote a cause to greatness. But the danger is that the vehicle can become the thing promoted instead of the cause. And then there is the issue of to often power corrupting the men driving the vehicle.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Can become. To me politics is a vehicle that if used by men of integrity can promote a cause to greatness. But the danger is that the vehicle can become the thing promoted instead of the cause. And then there is the issue of to often power corrupting the men driving the vehicle.

I believe you are correct. There is always a danger with man involved but that should not keep us from being involved in a godly fashion.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

When the sin of politics enter into the org, it ceases to be divine. The bible speaks that we are to be subject one to another. I believe that means that those that are close to us should be the ones we subject ourselves to and be accountable to. They are the ones that know us in our private and personal life, and can be more objective in speaking words of restoration and reconciliation, and at times words of rebuke and correction to us when we need it. A DS that may only know your name will not be a good person to be holding you accountable.


I could also add to the above that there are times that the System is defective, as it is in TN, and accountability becomes subjective to who you know.

The sin of politics is the key...

Politics is worldly. It is not sin but it is iniquity, being devoid of divine law. The craft of politcs is not God's way. Yet, we choose leaders to whom we are accountable to. That choosing becomes divine authority to which we must submit.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

The sin of politics is the key...

Politics is worldly. It is not sin but it is iniquity, being devoid of divine law. The craft of politcs is not God's way. Yet, we choose leaders to whom we are accountable to. That choosing becomes divine authority to which we must submit.

I guess we must define our terms. What do you me by "politics"? In Scripture we see godly men using politics in a noble fashion.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I guess we must define our terms. What do you me by "politics"? In Scripture we see godly men using politics in a noble fashion.

Good point...

I should have noted that there is a difference in politics and politics.

Politics in one sense is the use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in government or business. This is iniquity...out of the bounds of divine law. Lust for power will move one to use this form of politics. It is seen in ecclesiastical circles all the time.

Then, there is the politics of the art of persuasion. This is acceptable when it is done in humility and brotherly love, esteeming others above self. When bretheren come together with this disposition, it can then be said, "how good and pleasant it is..." Paul was in a politician in this sense. He said that he persuaded men. Yet he did not use intrigue and stealth to worm his way into power from the lust of holding office. It took a little political saavy to get my wife to marry me.

The latter is godly, while the former is not. A fellowship that does not step across the bounds to use the former can be a powerful force for the cause of God. Nevertheless all power of is of God...including that of Hitler during his day. But, that is another discussion from which debate can have no end.

[Apprehended]

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

1Pe 2:13 ¶ Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;


1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:


1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.


1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

No one is under any obligation to join a man made organization or denomination, but once you do, behave yourself and live according to the instructions given to you by the Apostle of the Lord here, and for the sake of Christ, the laws of the organization. These eccelesiastical magistrates ARE ordained of God for the purpose that they are placed there because there IS no power that is not ordained of God.

Once bound to those laws though it is not sin, it could become iniquitous when one operates outside the laws of Divine Love to engage in political intrigue and stealth for the sake of wordly power outside the kingdom laws of LOVE. To behave CONTRARY to those laws renders that malcontent a rebel against established, God ordained powers.

God knows that there is a lot of wicked, political intrigue that goes on in those denominations and organizations. To use those methods to gain power or advance an agenda is wicked. However, no one within that fellowship is compelled to participate in that wickeness. It is the way of WORLDLINESS which character we are told to love NOT. It will pass away and the LUST thereof along with it.

Meanwhile, rebellion is as wicked as it is the core of the spirit of a rebel to be a political animal in the darkest sense of intrigue and stealth. Flee from such for many of these appear before the unsuspecting eye as an angel (messenger) of light.

[TalkLady]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

When the sin of politics enter into the org, it ceases to be divine. The bible speaks that we are to be subject one to another. I believe that means that those that are close to us should be the ones we subject ourselves to and be accountable to. They are the ones that know us in our private and personal life, and can be more objective in speaking words of restoration and reconciliation, and at times words of rebuke and correction to us when we need it. A DS that may only know your name will not be a good person to be holding you accountable.


I could also add to the above that there are times that the System is defective, as it is in TN, and accountability becomes subjective to who you know.

GREAT POST, STMATTHEW. You hit the nail on the head!!!