For 3 days, where was Jesus' soul?

[mizpeh]

Jesus said he was going to paradise and to the heart of the earth. We also learn that Jesus descended. His outer man (his body) was in the tomb and His inner man, I believe, went to the same place Lazarus went to...Abraham's bosom/paradise.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Jesus said he was going to paradise and to the heart of the earth. We also learn that Jesus descended. His outer man (his body) was in the tomb and His inner man, I believe, went to the same place Lazarus went to...Abraham's bosom/paradise.

Ok then.

Just something about thinking that Jesus spent three days in the eternal ************ation of what we percieve "hell" to be just isn't "setting right" with me.

Still not sure I have a proper picture of what it all means, I'll have to read more of this thread later tonight. It's off to work for me

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Ok then.

Just something about thinking that Jesus spent three days in the eternal ************ation of what we percieve "hell" to be just isn't "setting right" with me.

Still not sure I have a proper picture of what it all means, I'll have to read more of this thread later tonight. It's off to work for me

It all depends if you believe the Bible teaches there is an intermediate state between death and resurrection or if when we die we cease to be until the resurrection, soul sleep.

I'm going through a class on this subject online. My own belief is what I told you above but I'm interested in what the instructors in this class will teach and what scriptures they will use to base their opinions on.

If your interested go here: http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/268theologyquestions and click on questions # 143-148. The instructors are graduates from Dallas Theological Seminary.

[mfblume]

Gehenna is a fiery torment. We are not told it is not actual fire or if it is. But souls cannot burn, so if it is fire, it must be a non-physical sort of flame as the soul is non-physical.

Hades is the Greek version of the Hebrew SHEOL. I believe at one time hades/Sheol contained righteous and unrighteous dead. The rich man and Lazarus show the realm of the dead before the cross as being comprised of both Gehenna and Abraham's bosom. Gehenna was the place of fiery torment and Abrahams' Bosom was the place of the righteous dead. Saints of God as well as the unrighteous were said to be in SHEOL after death before the New Testament.

We read this about Christ's absence from his body.

Ephesians 4:8-11 KJV Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Some claim his descent into the lower parts of the earth refers to hell. Others feel it simply refers to having been humbled in coming to the earth in the incarnation so as to be subject to death.

Taking captivity captive is said by some to refer to entering Gehenna and taking the keys of death and hell so as to loose the souls in Abraham's Bosom and raise them out of Sheol/Hades and bring them into Heaven. This would leave Sheol/Hades solely the abode of the dam-ned now, and no longer both the d a m ned and the righteous.

Don Francisco, Christian singer/songwriter, wrote a song about this and spoke of all the OT saints in Abraham's bosom hearing Abraham speak of the promise. And the idea of the chasm fixed between Lazarus and the rich man is referred to as the saints see Christ come from across the chasm towards them with victory to raise them up into glory.

Luke 16:23-26 KJV And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. (26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Hence, the saints that arose with Christ on the third day when He resurrected were in transport to Heaven after having been in sheol/hades.

It is a parable used to refer to the pharisees as the rich man and the believers, with Christ, as Lazarus. But nothing says this realm of the dead is not actual. Jesus referred to actual events such as sowing fields in order to bring out a point in his parables. So, while some contend the realm of the dead is not actual in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, I contend IT IS!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

So hell is God's garbage bin?

As I said already, the word hell is a KJV translation of several words. It is therefore a bad translation.

There is Hades
There is Sheol
There is Ghenna
and there is Tartarus

When Jesus refers to Ghenna (an actual place in Israel that was a burning trash heap) he is speaking metaphorically or symbolically of the destruction of the evil. Jesus often used parables or visual ques to get men to "see" his point.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Ok then.

Just something about thinking that Jesus spent three days in the eternal ************ation of what we percieve "hell" to be just isn't "setting right" with me.

Still not sure I have a proper picture of what it all means, I'll have to read more of this thread later tonight. It's off to work for me

Brother if you read what was posted already you would have discovered that HELL is not the place of eternal ************ation. The Lake of Fire is that place. Hell is a bad translation attempt of at least four different words, one hebrew and the rest greek

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

As I said already, the word hell is a KJV translation of several words. It is therefore a bad translation.

There is Hades
There is Sheol
There is Ghenna
and there is Tartarus

When Jesus refers to Ghenna (an actual place in Israel that was a burning trash heap) he is speaking metaphorically or symbolically of the destruction of the evil. Jesus often used parables or visual ques to get men to "see" his point.

Do these four words indicate one literal place?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do these four words indicate one literal place?

No three separate places...one of the words was the hebrew word for the grave, where all the dead go. One was a greek word meaning grave where all the dead go. One was the place where fallen angels go and one was the metaphoric representation of the final death in the lake of fire

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No three separate places...one of the words was the hebrew word for the grave, where all the dead go. One was a greek word meaning grave where all the dead go. One was the place where fallen angels go and one was the metaphoric representation of the final death in the lake of fire

But does the word for the grave mean the literal grave where our physical bodies are buried? or is it the place where our inner man goes when our spirit/soul depart from our bodies at death...we give up the ghost?

Fallen angels seem to have freedom on the earth to wreak havoc amongst us especially among those that are taken captive by them. Their only restraint is God, His armies of holy angels, and His church. I just don't see where they are in a literal prison at this time.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

But does the word for the grave mean the literal grave where our physical bodies are buried? or is it the place where our inner man goes when our spirit/soul depart from our bodies at death...we give up the ghost?

Fallen angels seem to have freedom on the earth to wreak havoc amongst us especially among those that are taken captive by them. Their only restraint is the God, His armies of holy angels, and His church. I just don't see where they are in a literal prison at this time.

Psa 16:10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.


AMP Act 2:31 He, foreseeing this, spoke [by foreknowledge] of the resurrection of the Christ (the Messiah) that He was not deserted [in death] and left in Hades (the state of departed spirits), nor did His body know decay or see destruction.(3)

"Tartarus," the pagan Greek term for the place of enchainment of the Titans, rebels against God, occurs in 2Pe_2:4 of the lost angels; the "deep," or "abyss," or "bottomless pit," (abussos) Luk_8:31; Rev_9:11.