The State of the UPC

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by CC1

I am really surprised at the dismal demographics regarding the percentage of licensed ministers under the age of 35 (reported to be 4% if correct). I knew it would not be good but was shocked at how bad it is.

I think one of the weaknesses of many Oneness Pentecostal churches, not just UPC ones but exUPC ones as well, is a lack of mentoring young men to become preachers.

My anecdotal observation is that;

1. It appears many pastors do not want to take the time to mentor young preachers.

2. There is no emphasis on developing young preachers. No programs or encouragement to do so.

3. In the case of many progressive churches the concept being emphasized is that everybody is a minister, one on one evangelism, etc which is all good and true BUT we still need young ministers developed for full time ministry.

Does anyone believe the propensity to turn over churches to offspring has discouraged non-PK's from entering the ministry? How many times have we seen completely incompetent pastor's children take over a church simply because they had the silver spoon of inheritance in their mouth, not because they had any wisdom, skill, or talent to actually pastor a church?

And I'm not bitter.....I happen to be one of the beneficiaries of this.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

One problem with this seems to be - when/how do the young preachers get a chance to minister? If a church has two services a week, and there are 10 preachers in that church.... when/where/how do they all get to preach? There usually is really only room for 2 or 3 preachers to be really used in a church.

A lot of churches start nursing home ministries, street ministries, etc. to have a place to "use" the young ministers. But a lot of young ministers get discouraged with that, because they don't feel like that is "real" preaching.

A lot of them will go out "on the evangelistic field" hoping to become sought-out evangelists. Problem is, you usually have to be a real fire-ball to become sought-out and booked-up.

A LOT of young preachers get discouraged and quit because they "never get a chance to preach".

I think the whole issue needs an overhaul.

One of the downfalls of pentecostalism, in my opinion, is its fascination with great orators. Some of the best spiritual leaders in history have been less than average with a microphone in their hand, but in pentecostalism, quite often the best pulpit preacher is the one elected/appointed to pastor a church and often, they're a complete disaster in every other pastoral skill.

[Carpenter]

I agree with folks who say that young preachers aren't getting their chance to preach, however, character of these young men is built in nursing homes, street services and the sunday school rooms. Any young man who refuses to pay their dues in these areas isn't worth their salt.

Having said that, I also believe (just estimating) that most every major metropolitan city has a large church with 500+ and a few stragling churches between 100-150 people. The problem is that these large churches enjoy the resources, the fanfare, and the names, and their members drive through the city and pass by 3 other UPC churches on their way.

I believe the UPC has failed in their mission thinking they have a burden for any city...it is really an illusion, they just don't want, will not support, and will vote against any start-up that would threaten their numbers?

I have seen home missions pastors and existing church pastors just hung out to dry by the big church, abandonded...God forbid that people in Westchestertonfieldville go to church in Westchestertonfieldville.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Does anyone believe the propensity to turn over churches to offspring has discouraged non-PK's from entering the ministry? How many times have we seen completely incompetent pastor's children take over a church simply because they had the silver spoon of inheritance in their mouth, not because they had any wisdom, skill, or talent to actually pastor a church?

And I'm not bitter.....I happen to be one of the beneficiaries of this.

That is probably my biggest pet peeve with Pentecost. Pretty much universally leaving the church to a son or if no son a son in law is what is done. Even with men I otherwise have great respect for.

I have heard all of the rationale and excuses but at the end of the day it is just that - rationales and excuses. I think it is the height of arrogance to think that God has not raised up a preacher other than your own blood who can take care of whatever work you have been overseeing. Occasionally there is a good result but more times than not the result is not the best man for the job pastoring a church. Truly blood is thicker than water.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Falla39

CC1,
I don't think it begins with the pastors not mentoring young preachers. It
should have began long before by fathers in the home. No, too many men
have left that part (spiritual) to the mothers and grandmothers and the
pastors.

I believe it begins in the HOME. Too many children are NOT "TRAINED UP IN
THE WAY they SHOULD go".
Falla39

Can't disagree with this.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Austin can you explain further? Do you think the UPC has been greatly compromised?

In these later times all the saints of God will have to take cautions in safe garding their personal relationship with Jesus. There is no church organization on the face of this earth currently that Satan is not trying to compromise.
This is not a new trick or device it has existed since the time of the Apostle Paul. Paul advises us in the scriptures that we are not ignorant of Satan's devices.
The greatest approach of Satan on the Church of Jesus is to divide and conquer. He has been doing it from the beginning. And now we more clearly see that than ever before.
The spirit of anti christ operates through the spirit of persuasion to compromise the truth,( today they call it being politically correct) and of course the spirit of the anti christ is none other than satan himself, who will reveal himself during the tribulation period professing to be the Christ..
Hebrew 10:23 States to hold fast to the profession of your faith without wavering: for He is faithful that promised.
In reading that all full gospel believing people need to put all their trust in Jesus and not man, nor his organizations. Because, when we do and they fail us, we have the tendency to fall! Been there and done that and have learnd my lesson the hard way..
Im old enough to remember the old brush harbor meetings that lasted way into the morning hours. They were not people from the UPCI but they were people who were full of the Holy Ghost and the LOVE OF GOD!
I guess what Iam trying to say is this; there will always be spirit filled believers full of the Holy Ghost who by the changed nature within them continue to live holy and operate in the gifts of the Spirit. And will spread His word through out this world. And why do I know that. BECAUSE GOD IS GOD ALL BY HIMSELF!!! and all those who have cast their anchor at His feet shall return rejoicing>

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Does anyone believe the propensity to turn over churches to offspring has discouraged non-PK's from entering the ministry? How many times have we seen completely incompetent pastor's children take over a church simply because they had the silver spoon of inheritance in their mouth, not because they had any wisdom, skill, or talent to actually pastor a church?

And I'm not bitter.....I happen to be one of the beneficiaries of this.

I'm so glad my late father never pushed this.....if he did could you imagine the scandal????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by CC1

That is probably my biggest pet peeve with Pentecost. Pretty much universally leaving the church to a son or if no son a son in law is what is done. Even with men I otherwise have great respect for.

I have heard all of the rationale and excuses but at the end of the day it is just that - rationales and excuses. I think it is the height of arrogance to think that God has not raised up a preacher other than your own blood who can take care of whatever work you have been overseeing. Occasionally there is a good result but more times than not the result is not the best man for the job pastoring a church. Truly blood is thicker than water.

Why should someone go into debt in a seminary school knowing they may never be compensated?

[Coonskinner]

I see a higher percentage of young preachers at the more conservative meetings than I do the general UPC events.

I think the higher degree of respect and esteem for the ministry that tends to be found among this segment of our movement is at least partially responsible for this.

Another thing that must be taken into account is the fact that today's young ministers don't have the same fascination with licenses and fellowship cards that their fathers did.

I know plenty of young preachers that just don't care to be licensed. They don't see that much benefit.

All that having been said, the shrinking number of young preachers is quickly becoming a matter of grave concern to the org.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

There are a lot of young preachers.
However, there are a lot of old preachers who do not want to groom them for succession.
There are a lot of older preachers who have not planned for retirement and therefore cannot afford to retire and give up their church.
There is no clear line of succession, except for the family one, which I do not believe is ordained of God, in most cases.
So, a lot of young preachers give up and move on to secular jobs.
I have been privileged to be around some pastors who actually groomed and wanted their young ministers to grow and establish churches.
This makes a huge difference.
Also, most of these young preachers care nothing about getting a license, unless they are pointed in that direction.

This is huge...think of the big names that have passed off the scene in the last two years...major names, Kilgore, Pugh, Becton, Elms, Ewing, Mangun...

I think the next 10 years are going to be pivotal in the organization...

Also, if you take a look at professional organizations, the membership is WAAAY down...the part of our culture that liked to belong to social groups and identified as such is in decline...how many young guys do you see driving around those little cars in parades wearing those silly little shriners hats?