Ultra Cons Quitting Church

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love the scene in the movie, When Love Comes Softly, when the male character is sitting out on a small wooden bench (or stump?) alone singing and his lady friend asks his daughter what he's doing... and she answers that he's going to church.

That's a relationship with God.

Singing by yourself is going to church? Now I've heard everything!

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by CC1

answers,

My experience is that this is not a conservative or liberal issue. It is a people issue. Folks who are always critical and unhappy with churches crosses the entire spectrum from ultra con to ultra liberal.

These are generally very critical people who will never be happy until everything is done exactly as they think it should be. A lot of these folks end up in "home fellowships" with other malcontents. (I am not saying there are not genuine situations where home fellowship groups are appropriate but I am saying a lot of them are made up of these folks I have described).

Yes, I've seen groups from both sides start house churching, liberal and conservative.

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love the scene in the movie, When Love Comes Softly, when the male character is sitting out on a small wooden bench (or stump?) alone and singing. His lady friend asks his daughter what he's doing... and the little girl answers that her paw is going to church.

That's a relationship with God.

Aquila, I have to disagree. Being alone is not going to church. That's meditation.

Also, going to an unorganized house church without biblical elders who oversee the group should not be considered going to church either. That's a Bible study.

What would the apostles say?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Aquila, I have to disagree. Being alone is not going to church. That's meditation.

Also, going to an unorganized house church without biblical elders who oversee the group should not be considered going to church either. That's a Bible study.

What would the apostles say?

Reminds of the time this lady told me "this is my preacher" refering to a book she had, i think it was christian scientist or something.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Singing by yourself is going to church? Now I've heard everything!

lol

What's wrong with a personal relationship with God? Wasn't that how David "churched" when he was a shepherd boy?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Aquila, I have to disagree. Being alone is not going to church. That's meditation.

I see your angle. To "church" is to assemble with other believers. But... does that mean a pioneer will lose their soul if they have no one to worship with or aren't spiritually at peace worshiping with the assembly he could attend? I don't think so. Imagine being the only Apostolic in a town hundreds of miles from any Pentecostal type of church. In this town are nothing but Presbyterian churches. Do you go? Or do you maintain your walk with God personally?

Also, going to an unorganized house church without biblical elders who oversee the group should not be considered going to church either. That's a Bible study.

What would the apostles say?

I agree. However, we might differ on what a biblical elder is. An elder needs no ecclesiastical "position"... he must be a spiritual father and mentor that is recognized by the body.

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I see your angle. To "church" is to assemble with other believers. But... does that mean a pioneer will lose their soul if they have no one to worship with or aren't spiritually at peace worshiping with the assembly he could attend? I don't think so.

No, of course the pioneer would not lose his soul if there were no other believers to assemble with. But that is an exceptional and less-than-ideal situation. The normative, biblical pattern for spiritual growth is to assemble with the Body.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imagine being the only Apostolic in a town hundreds of miles from any Pentecostal type of church. In this town are nothing but Presbyterian churches. Do you go? Or do you maintain your walk with God personally?

Well, that's an interesting question... Two points:

(1) I am not an "Apostolic" as most people on this forum understand the term. So I have no idea how I would think or act if I were one.

(2) Although I am not Presbyterian either, I would choose to fellowship with the Presbyterians in a heartbeat if that were my only other choice.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree. However, we might differ on what a biblical elder is. An elder needs no ecclesiastical "position"... he must be a spiritual father and mentor that is recognized by the body.

Yes, and an elder must also have the authority to discipline and/or expel members for unrepentant behavior. Not quite sure what you mean about "ecclesiastical position."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Singing by yourself is going to church? Now I've heard everything!

Originally Posted by Aquila

lol

What's wrong with a personal relationship with God? Wasn't that how David "churched" when he was a shepherd boy?

Aquila does this all the time. Ignores what you said and puts words in your mouth

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

No, of course the pioneer would not lose his soul if there were no other believers to assemble with. But that is an exceptional and less-than-ideal situation. The normative, biblical pattern for spiritual growth is to assemble with the Body.



Well, that's an interesting question... Two points:

(1) I am not an "Apostolic" as most people on this forum understand the term. So I have no idea how I would think or act if I were one.

(2) Although I am not Presbyterian either, I would choose to fellowship with the Presbyterians in a heartbeat if that were my only other choice.

Yes, and an elder must also have the authority to discipline and/or expel members for unrepentant behavior. Not quite sure what you mean about "ecclesiastical position."

I too believe an elder should have authority to discipline and guide the church. I do not believe it has to be a licensed, salaried, registered, denominational position with a tax exemption status. If a man is recognized by his community of faith as being a trusted elder, meeting the biblical requirements stated in the Epistles, he's an elder.

I also feel that Scripture emphasizes how an elder runs their home... not as a qualification for a spiritual CEO position. But because in practice an elder is a spiritual father and mentor. The traditional church is structured like a corporation. I believe churches should be structured like a family.

[Sister Alvear]

In Communist prisons christians forget brands and all pray together....I once hear Richard Wurmbrand say...yeah...and for communion they held up empty hands and broke nothing...yet they all wept in the presence of the Lord....