The UPCI Needs a Healer

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I was thinking on the drive home from work........

How is the UPC better off without Crawford Coon?

How is the UPC better off without Johnny and Ken Godair?

How is the UPC better off without many of the fine, highly respected, looked up to and successful men of God who may be leaving?

How can this be?

I was thinking about this post today at work...can any of those who think we are better off without these brethren answer the questions above?!

Can any of those who think they will be better off departing the Mothership respond?!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Barb

That's fine, Renda, but I maintain that it makes no sense to me.

My godsister is a member of Bishop W's church in Sacto...though we disagree on this point, he is one of the finest men of God I know.

She said that he hasn't mentioned the 'issue' by name, but said that "certain battles are worth dying for."

Guess this means he's in it for the long haul...I don't get it...

Why can't we all become dispassionate for a few minutes and realize that this may not necessarily be a bad thing? There is no sin in leaving an organization, and I seriously doubt that the UPC will die because of the men who leave. Just as I seriously doubt that those men will suffer because they left.

Sometimes, it just becomes time to move on to something else - plain and simple. It's not that one is right and the other is wrong, it just may be that they are moving in different directions.

Peter and Paul withstood each other greatly to the face, and parted ways, but they were still powerful, great men of God who reached their world effectively. Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have been nearly as effective had they stayed together, because their spheres of influence would have blended, and they may have limited their encounters with diverse groups of people.

Just as cells in the human body have to divide to multiply, and just as God scattered the people at the tower of Babel so they could go into ALL the earth, maybe what is perceived at this time to be unwanted division is actually God's way of spreading the gospel into areas that may have previously gone unreached.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Why can't we all become dispassionate for a few minutes and realize that this may not necessarily be a bad thing? There is no sin in leaving an organization, and I seriously doubt that the UPC will die because of the men who leave. Just as I seriously doubt that those men will suffer because they left.

Sometimes, it just becomes time to move on to something else - plain and simple. It's not that one is right and the other is wrong, it just may be that they are moving in different directions.

Peter and Paul withstood each other greatly to the face, and parted ways, but they were still powerful, great men of God who reached their world effectively. Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have been nearly as effective had they stayed together, because their spheres of influence would have blended, and they may have limited their encounters with diverse groups of people.

Just as cells in the human body have to divide to multiply, and just as God scattered the people at the tower of Babel so they could go into ALL the earth, maybe what is perceived at this time to be unwanted division is actually God's way of spreading the gospel into areas that may have previously gone unreached.

Michael, perhaps I am wrong, but didn't God confound their language at Babel and they scattered out of necessity?!

They all spoke the same thing...they were UNITED...something this organization was founded on...UNITY!!

Sorry, but I don't see it as a good thing...not at all...JMHO.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Barb

Michael, perhaps I am wrong, but didn't God confound their language at Babel and they scattered out of necessity?!

They all spoke the same thing...they were UNITED...something this organization was founded on...UNITY!!

Sorry, but I don't see it as a good thing...not at all...JMHO.

This organization was also founded on the principle that "we shall not contend for our separate viewpoints to the disunity of the faith".

In my opinion, if you are part of an organization, and you no longer agree with what the organization stands for, you should leave.

I believe this is true with those who take either a more liberal view, OR a more conservative view.

Murray Burr was applauded by many and ridiculed by many when he left the UPC, but he acted on principle, and I admire that.

Many of our more liberal brethren were applauded by many, and ridiculed by many when they left the organization.

However, in both cases, I believe that these men did the right thing - they left to honor their principles rather than staying and causing division and "contending for their separate viewpoints".

I really don't see it as a bad thing. We may be losing some of the influence of some good men, but we are not losing the men - we can still hear them preach, still attend functions where they are involved, and the world will still feel the influence of their ministries.

The only thing that will change that will be if men in either camp become bitter, and begin infighting - then EVERYONE suffers.

It was while Jereboam and Reheboam, both sons of Solomon, were fighting amongst themselves that Shishak, King of Egypt, crept in and stole the golden shields on the walls of the temple.

No matter what happens, we can't fight each other - our mission remains the same, no matter what organization we align with.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Barb

Michael, perhaps I am wrong, but didn't God confound their language at Babel and they scattered out of necessity?!

They all spoke the same thing...they were UNITED...something this organization was founded on...UNITY!!

Sorry, but I don't see it as a good thing...not at all...JMHO.

I think this is the point that some of us are trying to make, at this point in time, it seems like this is a necessity. Because for some, unity is apparently not an option. They have decided rightly or wrongly to draw their line in the sand, and since they cannot see wholeness beyond that line, this is the best solution. For some, it has been a long time coming, and in all honesty, it probably will be a good thing for them. IF they can keep from turning on each other now that the obvious targets are gone. I don't agree with their stand, but I acknowledge their right to make it.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Barb

That's fine, Renda, but I maintain that it makes no sense to me.

My godsister is a member of Bishop W's church in Sacto...though we disagree on this point, he is one of the finest men of God I know.

She said that he hasn't mentioned the 'issue' by name, but said that "certain battles are worth dying for."

Guess this means he's in it for the long haul...I don't get it...

I don't get it either - that's why your 'none' post really floored me.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This organization was also founded on the principle that "we shall not contend for our separate viewpoints to the disunity of the faith".

In my opinion, if you are part of an organization, and you no longer agree with what the organization stands for, you should leave.

I believe this is true with those who take either a more liberal view, OR a more conservative view.

Murray Burr was applauded by many and ridiculed by many when he left the UPC, but he acted on principle, and I admire that.

Many of our more liberal brethren were applauded by many, and ridiculed by many when they left the organization.

However, in both cases, I believe that these men did the right thing - they left to honor their principles rather than staying and causing division and "contending for their separate viewpoints".

I really don't see it as a bad thing. We may be losing some of the influence of some good men, but we are not losing the men - we can still hear them preach, still attend functions where they are involved, and the world will still feel the influence of their ministries.

The only thing that will change that will be if men in either camp become bitter, and begin infighting - then EVERYONE suffers.

It was while Jereboam and Reheboam, both sons of Solomon, were fighting amongst themselves that Shishak, King of Egypt, crept in and stole the golden shields on the walls of the temple.

No matter what happens, we can't fight each other - our mission remains the same, no matter what organization we align with.

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I think this is the point that some of us are trying to make, at this point in time, it seems like this is a necessity. Because for some, unity is apparently not an option. They have decided rightly or wrongly to draw their line in the sand, and since they cannot see wholeness beyond that line, this is the best solution. For some, it has been a long time coming, and in all honesty, it probably will be a good thing for them. IF they can keep from turning on each other now that the obvious targets are gone. I don't agree with their stand, but I acknowledge their right to make it.

Y'all are making me cry...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Why can't we all become dispassionate for a few minutes and realize that this may not necessarily be a bad thing? There is no sin in leaving an organization, and I seriously doubt that the UPC will die because of the men who leave. Just as I seriously doubt that those men will suffer because they left.

Sometimes, it just becomes time to move on to something else - plain and simple. It's not that one is right and the other is wrong, it just may be that they are moving in different directions.

Peter and Paul withstood each other greatly to the face, and parted ways, but they were still powerful, great men of God who reached their world effectively. Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have been nearly as effective had they stayed together, because their spheres of influence would have blended, and they may have limited their encounters with diverse groups of people.

Just as cells in the human body have to divide to multiply, and just as God scattered the people at the tower of Babel so they could go into ALL the earth, maybe what is perceived at this time to be unwanted division is actually God's way of spreading the gospel into areas that may have previously gone unreached.

I agree with this, but why all the drama with the "UPC needs a healer" I believe is the question. These men made their minds up before they got to Tampa, but now they seem to want to point the finger like the vote forced them out.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This organization was also founded on the principle that "we shall not contend for our separate viewpoints to the disunity of the faith".

In my opinion, if you are part of an organization, and you no longer agree with what the organization stands for, you should leave.

I believe this is true with those who take either a more liberal view, OR a more conservative view.

Murray Burr was applauded by many and ridiculed by many when he left the UPC, but he acted on principle, and I admire that.

Many of our more liberal brethren were applauded by many, and ridiculed by many when they left the organization.

However, in both cases, I believe that these men did the right thing - they left to honor their principles rather than staying and causing division and "contending for their separate viewpoints".

I really don't see it as a bad thing. We may be losing some of the influence of some good men, but we are not losing the men - we can still hear them preach, still attend functions where they are involved, and the world will still feel the influence of their ministries.

The only thing that will change that will be if men in either camp become bitter, and begin infighting - then EVERYONE suffers.

It was while Jereboam and Reheboam, both sons of Solomon, were fighting amongst themselves that Shishak, King of Egypt, crept in and stole the golden shields on the walls of the temple.

No matter what happens, we can't fight each other - our mission remains the same, no matter what organization we align with.

The one thing that bothers me is actively recruiting members from the UPCI to join them!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I don't get it either - that's why your 'none' post really floored me.

You're hung up on "none..." and why should what I post floor you?! Who am I?!

Renda, the men who will be leaving, if they haven't already, are visionaries in the strongest sense of the word.

Yes, there are good men left, but those departing have made an impact that will be hard to follow.

I see nothing good coming of this, but again it's just my opinion...no biggie...