Islam vs. Christianity Part 1

[Walks_in_islam]

My first post (ever) on this site:

Where is this from: HINT - not the Quran

"....then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death...."

Don't bother to explain context, as I am fully aware that this is only part but not all of the text of this and associated verses.

The caution here is that taken out of context, there are many, many verses in the Bible that (given a little time and energy) can be strung together out of context, like these lines from the Quran, to cause an unlearned person to interpret the Bible in a negative light or even use the out-of-context passages for their own personal, political, or financial ends. Rather than do this thing, why not suggest "read the Quran for yourself" Surah by Surah and line by line. Then determine for yourself what the Quran means. Handing out a few crumbs then boldly stating that these crumbs represent the Quran, rather than suggesting "read this book" implies a fear of the Quran and a fear of the audience actually educating themselves in what the book actually says.

It is as foolish to blindly follow a radical minister as it is to blindly follow a radical Imam. Followers of both Islam and Christianity are guilty, equally so, of this foolishness. Islam was not spread by a sword and those who have corrupted Islam with violence neither represent followers of the Quran nor the teachings of the Prophet.

The (5) pillars of Islam are:

1. Belief in the one and only one true God and the worship of none other (familiar?)
2. Prayer. Regular, daily prayer. (familiar?)
3. Fasting. There are both required and recommended fasting times. (familiar?)
4. Charity. It is required that a specific portion of your income and property must go to charity. Preference is in physical goods to the truly needy. (familiar?)
5. Return to roots. Every Muslim, if able, is required to make at least one prigramage to Mecca, site of a place of worship to God originally built by Abraham. This is a requirement of the Prophet but I do not believe this is specifically required in the Quran.

See extra things on the news shows? It represents the few thousand out of over a billion Muslims who have taken bits and pieces of teachings and strung them together for their own ends. See comments above on that subject.

Yeah, I came out with blazing guns.

Now tab down the "Islamic issues and news" - you have hate speech and bile about muslims dating all the way back to 2006.

I said NOTHING in any of my original posts about christians. You got exactly what you have been posting for years with the headline waving and applying this news story and that news story to your entire faith. How does it feel? Now quit whining about it. I'm certainly not. I'm used to it lol

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No, YOU got tit4tat. You are the one that came here with both guns blazing. You are the ones that said stuff about Christians and prayer and fasting. Then you were the one saying Pennycostal instead of Pentecostals and all the other garbage you spewed out. You get what you give.

[Walks_in_islam]

Stop already with the holier than thou. I'll just start cutting copying and repeating (old) posts lol.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You're the only one getting upset. Im just returning fire for fire rather than let you get away with what you post. Obscure headline? haha. It's ALL over the news, very often. Not obscure.

Neither are the stories about so-called "christians" my friend. How's it going to be?

I know that, but that does not prevent you muslims from abusing goats and raping your sisters and worshipping a stone.

Nor does it prevent you from stuffing dead children in suitcases, robbing helpless people, and getting caught with young kids with your pants down does it?


Who cares what the Quran says. At issue is WHAT you muslims do. That's the tone you set for this discussion. What do you want to do? I can match you word for word. You want to just have a civil discussion or do you want a fight? How you set the stage is how we will go



I return the same. What you DO in the news is not what I honestly believe is what you ARE. I do not expect the same consideration so save it.

yeah yeah....don't care. The point is Muslims DO kill the innocents.

CRIMINALS kill innocents. Their end is the same no matter their professed faith.

Yeah! Exactly. Just like when you quote some news item or claim to have seen teens groping each other means they are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Duh.

That is not what you said earlier. You implicated ALL Pentecostals based on what you supposedly saw of a few...though I am inclined to doubt your words at this point. So I am glad I made MY point in return. Your accusation about Christians and prayer and fasting and giving are all false accusations. As I said, visit a church that has prayer meetings and go to a prayer meeting and see if they hate prayer. We pray and fast and give just like you do. We just don't do it the way you do.

How does it feel? LOL sucks doesn't it? Now, as I said earlier, quit whining. You want to discuss doctrinal differences be my guest. You want to name call or wave headlines I certainly have the time, energy, and patience for that as well. Choose.

That is what you did! You made blanket statements ABOUT Christians. I have been careful to point out it's only a segment of Islamics that do certain things.

OH PLEASE! I can go back and post where (I) pointed it out about christians and numerous times specifically stated that doing it (making blanket statements) is wrong. Starting with first post (ever) above. YOU pointed out a "segment?" Where? (laughing) This is rich. But last time I said "lie" I got warned. (re-laughing) I also seriously doubt you or your capn trinity buddy will be warned about the goat thing or calling my newborn a "future terrorist". That tells me you people aren't hypocritical either. It's OK to make remarks like that. As long as I don't make them. Fortunately, you look like idiots dodging around your own bible and the words in your own bible without me even having to stoop to that. It's especially funny when YOU prax who posts anti-islam garbage all over this site then makes a lame attempt at the "high road" and claim you "carefully point out that it's only a segment". (still laughing)

No, actually months ago YOU started with this garbage and YOU are keeping it going. You are getting what you give. If you are tired then stop.

See above about time, patience, and energy.

[Walks_in_islam]

The thought of that just gets you all excited doesn't it

Originally Posted by Thomas Trini

Wii was probably an abused child.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Now tab down the "Islamic issues and news" - you have hate speech and bile about muslims dating all the way back to 2006.

I said NOTHING in any of my original posts about christians. You got exactly what you have been posting for years with the headline waving and applying this news story and that news story to your entire faith. How does it feel? Now quit whining about it. I'm certainly not. I'm used to it lol

I never said anything about your original post BTW look who is whining. lol

I never applied any news story to your entire faith. I have said over and over that not all Muslims are like this.

BTW How does it feel? lol..you think what you did was new?

You are used to it? Well maybe that is your problem. You came here with an expected attitude.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Stop already with the holier than thou. I'll just start cutting copying and repeating (old) posts lol.

The only one acting Holier than thou is you lol. Old posts...good grief

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You're the only one getting upset. Im just returning fire for fire rather than let you get away with what you post. Obscure headline? haha. It's ALL over the news, very often. Not obscure.

Neither are the stories about so-called "christians" my friend. How's it going to be?

You tell me what you want to do. You were the one that first posted Christians despised prayer and fasting and when I countered and said to come to a church and ask for a prayer meeting you were the one that responded with that stuff about Pennycostals groping each other. If you did not like my reply maybe you should have thought first about what you posted.

I know that, but that does not prevent you muslims from abusing goats and raping your sisters and worshipping a stone.

Nor does it prevent you from stuffing dead children in suitcases, robbing helpless people, and getting caught with young kids with your pants down does it?

In our nation we don't condone such acts. Further this started with your slam on Christians not praying or fasting, and in fact my counter was that Christians DO pray and fast. You entered in with the slur about Christians in a negative light. We can do this all day long. You were the one that used the pejorative "Pennycostal" and tried to portray ALL Pentecostals in a certain way and implied we all despise prayer and fasting. But as you said, I am used to it. You want to fight? Or do you want to dialog? I got more pictures of goats for you if you want to take the low road

Who cares what the Quran says. At issue is WHAT you muslims do. That's the tone you set for this discussion. What do you want to do? I can match you word for word. You want to just have a civil discussion or do you want a fight? How you set the stage is how we will go I return the same. What you DO in the news is not what I honestly believe is what you ARE. I do not expect the same consideration so save it.

But that IS in fact the consideration I gave you. You were to blind with hate to see it. I tried over and over to point out that it was not about all muslims

yeah yeah....don't care. The point is Muslims DO kill the innocents.

CRIMINALS kill innocents. Their end is the same no matter their professed faith.

And some of them profess Islam. That was the point in counter to YOUR point

Yeah! Exactly. Just like when you quote some news item or claim to have seen teens groping each other means they are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Duh.

That is not what you said earlier. You implicated ALL Pentecostals based on what you supposedly saw of a few...though I am inclined to doubt your words at this point. So I am glad I made MY point in return. Your accusation about Christians and prayer and fasting and giving are all false accusations. As I said, visit a church that has prayer meetings and go to a prayer meeting and see if they hate prayer. We pray and fast and give just like you do. We just don't do it the way you do.

How does it feel? LOL sucks doesn't it?

It does not bother me. I am used to it. However what I posted was ONLY in response to what you posted. I never started out in this thread saying ALL muslims were anything. Several times you tried to make that assertion and I asked you to quote me but you never did.

Now, as I said earlier, quit whining.

That is what I am saying to you. You get what you give. If you don't want what I recently posted then stop your slander.

You want to discuss doctrinal differences be my guest. You want to name call or wave headlines I certainly have the time, energy, and patience for that as well. Choose.

Well that is up to you. What you want to discuss is what you will post.

That is what you did! You made blanket statements ABOUT Christians. I have been careful to point out it's only a segment of Islamics that do certain things.

OH PLEASE! I can go back and post where (I) pointed it out about christians and numerous times specifically stated that doing it (making blanket statements) is wrong.

You JUST did post a blanket statement about Christians, prayer, fasting and giving. Good grief!

Starting with first post (ever) above. YOU pointed out a "segment?" Where? (laughing) This is rich. But last time I said "lie" I got warned. (re-laughing) I also seriously doubt you or your capn trinity buddy will be warned about the goat thing or calling my newborn a "future terrorist".

Did that bother you? I thought you were used to it. No whining from you eh? The goat thing? That was in response to your groping thing. Stop whining. If you don't like it, don't start it. Your newborn? I said nothing about your new born. I think you like the tone to be like this.

That tells me you people aren't hypocritical either. It's OK to make remarks like that. As long as I don't make them. Fortunately, you look like idiots dodging around your own bible and the words in your own bible without me even having to stoop to that. It's especially funny when YOU prax who posts anti-islam garbage all over this site then makes a lame attempt at the "high road" and claim you "carefully point out that it's only a segment". (still laughing)

Oh my...someone is getting hot under the collar...you sure this does not bother you? Anti-Islam? You consider posting news items...factual accounts, anti-Islam? If you look through this entire site you will see we also have posted such news stories of Christians. The truth is we know not all Muslims are terrorists in training, but there are enough that it should be addressed. And we also knew their zeal is fueled by religious rhetoric. We think that needs to be addressed. I had hoped, in the beginning of this thread I mentioned it several times ,that other moderate muslims would stand up and oppose the extremists. But of course you did not do that in this thread. Instead you tried to defend Islam and attack Christianity.

No, actually months ago YOU started with this garbage and YOU are keeping it going. You are getting what you give. If you are tired then stop.

See above about time, patience, and energy.

I have the time, patience and energy, do you?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do you think there are as many "radical" Christian pastors as there are Islamic leaders? There are no Christian nations where you can be stoned or beaten to death if you are a 13 year old girl that was gang raped by 3 men.

While I understand there are moderate Muslims, unfortunately there are either not enough, they are too weak or they are too silent. Your post? I think the ones that need to hear it are not Christians but those radical muslims. And rather than try to preach to us, stand up and denounce those radical segments if Islam.

On the other matters:
We know we are saved. We know we have eternal life. We don't have to go through life wondering if we have done enough goodness to merit salvation.

Yes we believe in One True God. Is He the same God as Islam? By comparison it does not seem He is.

Regular daily prayer? That is essential, but we are not earning our way to heaven by doing so.

Fasting? Required? Again, no. We don't have special days that we are commanded or forced to fast on. We fast for a different reason. In fact much of what we do is not about fearful obedience, earning our way to heaven or a fear of going to hell. It's about Love. We love God, so we have a relationship with God. We want to do things that draw us closer to God and maintain that closeness. And at the same time we love each other and try to be strong for each other. IF someone has a need, we pray for that person. Fasting helps to increase our faith as well.

Charity is again, not a requirement. Rather Charity, is or should be an ATTRIBUTE or the result of having a genuine conversion. We give because we want to, not because we are required to.

Have you been to Mecca? Have you circled around the Kaaba? Kissed it? Do you bow facing Mecca in worship? When we worship we bow in our hearts and we are facing God in heaven. He is the object of our worship. We have no idols. Do you know what the Kaaba was before Muhammed started Islam?

BTW my response.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I contend that I bounce between the "old one" and the "new one" (even though it is one book?). God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, right?

We are back to prayer, fasting, charity, belief in one God is somehow "wrong".

this is where you started, with the blanket assertions when nobody on this board said prayer, fasting, charity or belief in one God was somehow wrong.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

What else then is taught in your own church that defines a "christian" life?

You do not fear, but "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"

This begins a list of your false blanket assertions about Christians. We DO fear.

You do not tithe but "you rob me in tithes and offerings"

WE DO tithe. False blanket assertion #2

You are saved by faith but your actions do not matter - yet "the dead, small and great, were judged from the books according to their works"

False assertion #3, our actions DO matter

You spread hate and bigotry by degrading Muslims, Muslim families, and Islam on this board by referring to them as wife-beaters and worse, yet use "the rod of correction" and "sparing the rod spoils the child" on your own children. Or not, which then implies that you do not follow that either.

I asked you to quote me saying muslims are wife-beaters. You never did

You in one hand says god says something (specifically says something) then in the other say "but its not required for salvation". What is God's law for then?

You would have to sit still for a lesson on the two covenants and the purpose behind them. I don't think you can do that.

You on one hand say prayer is "essential" but then say it is not "required" as a daily part of life. Yet Jesus himself specifically taught and outlined how to pray.

it's ESSENTIAL as a daily part of life. It's not required as though God is going to blast you to hell for missing a prayer hour. It's ESSENTIAL for our walk with God.

Do you people stand firm on anything? Does that book you are taught from actually mean anything? How in the world can you so flippantly pick apart and decide what God means or doesn't mean out the words He has given to you?

We don't pick it apart. Again you don't understand the fact that God made a NEW covenant and what the purpose of the Old covenant was for. You never sat still long enough to delve into that. You were too busy firing shots

What you call "charitable contribution" is in fact equivalent to a tithe as it is calculated on a percentage. We believe it and take it as mandatory.

Mandatory for what? We see it as a privilage

I do have the time and patience. You started off with a blanket statement

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The 7 days and 14 days (of unclean-ness) refer back to the jewish LAW during the monthly time. The new mother is actually, under levitical law, to be put out. Nice book you have there. Again, the verse in reference is talking about (2) different things. Also again these are from YOUR bible.

Deep sigh. Here we go again. 7 days + 33 days = 40 days for a male child. 14 days + 66 days = 80 days for a female child. You said your child was a female/daughter. Aren't you violating the O.T. Law and not making it 80 days? READ THE VERSE. You're the literalist when it comes to clean and unclean foods, animals, people, etc, and said that the O.T. laws still apply. I'm just letting you take it to its logical extension. I doubt you'd even pet, or even touch a pig, or some other unclean animal. Soooooo, if you touch an unclean person, don't you also become unclean as a result? I doubt you'd hug a leper, even if it was a close relative.

And no, my wife has not entered the mosque and will not until (either) 40 days (or) she is completely recovered. Also, no fasting either. That is for health. Again very practical.

If it's a girl, why not 80 days? Borrowed Jewish laws.

Islam teaches that we (husbands) cannot bother our wives (for 'relations' haha) as well for (either) 40 days (or) until they are completely recovered. So I am still officially "fasting".

You're the one who brought up husband/wife relations.

We were discussing the fine points of jewish law from your bible. Those passages are out of your book not mine, mine is more practical in nature and does not teach that women are "unclean" during their time nor does it teach that they are to be put away in isolation every few weeks nor does it teach that the monthly time is some kind of "dirty" thing like your book does. It does specify that she is exempt from requirements for prayer or fasting, and also forbids sex during that time and for up to (40) days after childbirth.

As a father of 3 children (2 living), you'll be lucky to "get lucky" as early as 40 days.

Thank you however for your attempt to apply your bible to me when you so sadly fail to apply it to yourself.

Hey, you're the literalist.

[Walks_in_islam]

Deep sighs aren't going to help you impose your biblical rules on me.

Originally Posted by Thomas Trini

Deep sigh. Here we go again. 7 days + 33 days = 40 days for a male child. 14 days + 66 days = 80 days for a female child. You said your child was a female/daughter. Aren't you violating the O.T. Law and not making it 80 days? READ THE VERSE. You're the literalist when it comes to clean and unclean foods, animals, people, etc, and said that the O.T. laws still apply. I'm just letting you take it to its logical extension. I doubt you'd even pet, or even touch a pig, or some other unclean animal. Soooooo, if you touch an unclean person, don't you also become unclean as a result? I doubt you'd hug a leper, even if it was a close relative.

I will point out again it's YOUR bible. I explained our laws. Why do you now insist on applying yours to me and not yourself? As I also explained that in Islam women are not "unclean" or "dirty" after childbirth or during their time of the month. Throwing your spouse out for a week a month is a jewish thing I guess. As to saying that "I said the OT laws still apply" you should recall that what (I) said was that the apostle paul in corinthians said "set yourself apart" and "touch not unclean things". You said "OH new testament writers quote the old testament". But earlier you said that the new testament was "new law" and old testament was "old law". So in deference to your "new law" and "unclean things" being forbidden in the new testament (by the apostle paul not me lol) I said according to him it applies. Of course, you then went to your area of expertise (menstration since you did some kind of a sicko research paper on it) and started applying old testament law to me. You are arguing against a new testament passage IN YOUR OWN BIBLE.

If it's a girl, why not 80 days? Borrowed Jewish laws.

You're the one with a book of "borrowed jewish laws" in your house. I don't even OWN a bible (I just know where to go to pull up the odd rule here and there when I wish to entertain myself watching you people squirm out of following it)

You're the one who brought up husband/wife relations.

You're the one who brought up the discussion on the rules. No problem, ours are explained. Figured since personal things like menstruation (you did a frickin RESEARCH paper on that?) and use of toilet paper fascinate you so much I might as well throw that one out for you to slobber over or excite yourself over as well

As a father of 3 children (2 living), you'll be lucky to "get lucky" as early as 40 days.

As a father of 4 children (all living) I guess I can say with authority that you dont have anything new to teach me on that either.

Hey, you're the literalist.

Hey the words are right there and it's your book so you might as well ignore or marginalize them right? Don't worry about me - you can always pick a commentator that re-explains them in a palatable way. lol