Identity Crisis in the Local Church

[Thumper]

If a new attendee can come into your church, possibly experience the new birth and attend for any length of time without becoming aware of some the most basic holiness teachings your church has bigger problems than a link on a website to hazelwood.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

It isn't always a discussion about standards. You know as well as I (assuming you have been in the church for any given time), that there are people, several people in every single apostolic church in this nation where someone could make the remark, "...that person needs structure in their life." Meaning if it were not for the religious culture, and someone telling them how to do, and what to do, they would be out roaming and foaming in the graveyards chains hanging about their bodies...

Carp, if religious culture is the only thing keeping some from raving in the grave yard they are in a bad way, but by all means don't strip away the culture. Maybe culture will hold them in a place until the Spirit can do a work in their lives. Our maybe if culture is striped away they can come in contact with Jesus in the graveyard.

I do know there is a warning about having a form of Godliness, but denying the power. It's not having form that is bad, it having form but no real substance.

PS. I'm enjoying this discussion with you!

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Why wouldn't you give it to anyone?

I believe if a new convert or a potential new convert visits the website and reads the standard article, they could be turned off to our religion. Only the spirit should lead them.

For people that haven't been raised around this type religion, it is foreign to them. I think it could hinder moreso than help.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Felicity

People used to instinctively know there was a "cost" in serving Jesus Christ. If you believe that separation from the world and living a life of outward holiness is part of that cost why be reluctant to let people know upfront? You think they can't already tell anyhow by looking at people in the church that there's a lifestyle difference that might be required of them?

I don't get this "don't tell them upfront" business. I mean you don't have to push this down their throat at the outset ..... approach and attitude is all important ..... but I don't see what's wrong with new converts knowing at the outset what separation is about.

A lot of them change their way of living without having to be told anyhow. Don't they?

No they can't always tell by looking at people in the church. We have people from new converts, people that have never adhered to all the standards, and people that do adhere to them.

There is a difference in separation and standards. People can be separated from the world with make-up on.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

I believe if a new convert or a potential new convert visits the website and reads the standard article, they could be turned off to our religion. Only the spirit should lead them.
For people that haven't been raised around this type religion, it is foreign to them. I think it could hinder moreso than help.

Funny thing about this is; most are not turned off by commandments and Acts2:38 and It doesn't take much Leading of the Spirit to get the understanding of "thou shalt love thy Neighbor"
But when I comes to Standards this spiritual leading and conviction has to grow.
This so called leading of the "spirit" is the spirit of the Church and peer pressure.
Just like when some one joins a Snake Handling Church, eventually they are so called ;"Led of the spirit" to pick up a snake.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Funny thing about this is; most are not turned off by commandments and Acts2:38 and It doesn't take much Leading of the Spirit to get the understanding of "thou shalt love thy Neighbor"
But when I comes to Standards this spiritual leading and conviction has to grow.
This so called leading of the "spirit" is the spirit of the Church and peer pressure.
Just like when some one joins a Snake Handling Church, eventually they are so called ;"Led of the spirit" to pick up a snake.

The commandments and Acts 2:38 are biblical. "Thou shalt love they neighbor" is plain in scripture. It can't be twisted and turned into something other than what it says.

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

I believe if a new convert or a potential new convert visits the website and reads the standard article, they could be turned off to our religion. Only the spirit should lead them.

For people that haven't been raised around this type religion, it is foreign to them. I think it could hinder moreso than help.

Unless, of course, you explain that these "standards" are how the UPC believes one keeps oneself "unspotted from the world" (James 1:27) - if that's what UPC believes.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Chan

Unless, of course, you explain that these "standards" are how the UPC believes one keeps oneself "unspotted from the world" (James 1:27) - if that's what UPC believes.

If I were a new convert, I wouldn't care what a religious organization believed, I would only care what the bible says.

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

If I were a new convert, I wouldn't care what a religious organization believed, I would only care what the bible says.

Very often when a new convert comes out of, say, Roman Catholicism or one of those liturgical Protestant churches, one of the things on his mind is exactly what the organization where he found Christ believes.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Carp, if religious culture is the only thing keeping some from raving in the grave yard they are in a bad way, but by all means don't strip away the culture. Maybe culture will hold them in a place until the Spirit can do a work in their lives. Our maybe if culture is striped away they can come in contact with Jesus in the graveyard.

I do know there is a warning about having a form of Godliness, but denying the power. It's not having form that is bad, it having form but no real substance.

PS. I'm enjoying this discussion with you!

I too always enjoy discussions with folks who "get it" and are not offended because they think I am slamming them or their belief.

Ok...

There is nothing wrong with religious culture. Absolutely nothing, when it is recognized as such.

The problem is when the culture is related to salvation, spirituality, or a personal relationship with Jesus by leadership that would impose cultural elements for purposes of sustaining and perpetuating the religious society/group/movement.

I have been around long enough to experience several issues being invented and annointed literally at the drop of a hat, under that guise of "sovereign revelation" that have absolutely NOTHING to do with scripture, but are adopted by the constituency as something that will create or enhance a setting wherein God can move, at the behest of the spiritual leader.

Again, there is nothing wrong with religious culture, it is healthy in fact, but only if it is recognized as such.

Salvational issues and scripture cannot be that fickle as some would like to make it by infusing cultural aspects...like somehow shoving straw into your biceps then stepping back and saying to the ant, (flexing) look how strong I am!