Sit thou at my right hand...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hey dude, Thomas called Jesus his God. Titus says Jesus Christ is our great God and saviour. 2 Peter says Jesus is our God and saviour. Isaiah says the Son is also the mighty God and the everlasting Father. John says in the beginning was the Word, and not only was it "with" God, but WAS God, and then became flesh, and the apostles beheld His glory AS OF the only begotten Son.

He has revealed this Book to you, setting forth the truth and confirming the earlier Books, and earlier He revealed the Torah and Gospel for the guidance of mankind; and He has also revealed the Criterion (to distinguish truth from falsehood). A severe chastisement lies in store for those who deny the signs of Allah. Allah is All-Mighty; He is the Lord of Retribution. (Ali Imran 3-4)

Talk of chastisement don’t scare me none. I don’t reword or reinterpret a single passage outa your book. Ain’t never said “oh it says this but that really means something else”.

However now you too are saying some passages say one thing and some say something else? Go to the contradiction thread and wash rinse repeat.

In the Gospel: not one single passage, not one, has Jesus say: I am God. Jesus says the opposite. I’m not going to list the number of times “who sent me, who I speak for” and “my power is given to me” is referenced.

Your report however should have some substance.

Add:

John 16:28
John 6:38
John 14:31
John 14:28 “the father is greater than I”? HUH?
John 15:10

Then please report that Jesus PRAYED to God in Matthew 26 and set up a future party not in Jesus’ kingdom but in his Father’s kingdom.

Anyone else want to snitch on me for making fun of stupid explanations of why this doesn’t mean what it says or it means something else? Y’all Speak Up but there is a difference between making fun of spin and making fun of what the book says.

Oh and if ya run around in Harris County wear your mask and no we don’t carry cooking bleach at the grocery stores here. Order that from Washington.

[Scott Pitta]

I will, if I may, step in for a moment.

The original post is about a specific aspect of theology. When others respond, the dialog retains value when the focus is on the specific aspect of the original post.

When posts drift away from the idea shared in the original post, they, in my opinion, lose value.

Debate all you want about broad issues on a page devoted to such a thing. But when a person wants to only discuss one specific aspect of a given issue, refrain your comments to that specific issue.

That is what I try to do.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What an awful way to see a precious thought that I shared turn into a debate that I was not pushing for.

I’m sorry to back away like that, I got called away right after my last post. Ill respond soon.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Talk of chastisement don’t scare me none. I don’t reword or reinterpret a single passage outa your book. Ain’t never said “oh it says this but that really means something else”.

However now you too are saying some passages say one thing and some say something else? Go to the contradiction thread and wash rinse repeat.

In the Gospel: not one single passage, not one, has Jesus say: I am God. Jesus says the opposite. I’m not going to list the number of times “who sent me, who I speak for” and “my power is given to me” is referenced.

Your report however should have some substance.

Add:

John 16:28
John 6:38
John 14:31
John 14:28 “the father is greater than I”? HUH?
John 15:10

Then please report that Jesus PRAYED to God in Matthew 26 and set up a future party not in Jesus’ kingdom but in his Father’s kingdom.

Anyone else want to snitch on me for making fun of stupid explanations of why this doesn’t mean what it says or it means something else? Y’all Speak Up but there is a difference between making fun of spin and making fun of what the book says.

Oh and if ya run around in Harris County wear your mask and no we don’t carry cooking bleach at the grocery stores here. Order that from Washington.

You don’t understand that Jesus never had to say, I am God.

A better insight into Peter’s understanding of who Jesus was is in 2 Peter 1:2-4.

2Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I’m sorry to back away like that, I got called away right after my last post. Ill respond soon.

Thanks!

[mfblume]

The whole issue of Oneness is that Jesus is both God and man and that AS MAN He is contrasted from GOD. And then AS GOD He made claims that only could be made by God. When we read He is seen from the perspective of his humanity in some cases, and from the perspective of His deity in others. This is the reason that Jesus flipped out the pharisees when he asked them why the commonly held understanding that David's son was to be the Messiah, but yet David Himself called him LORD in Psalm 110:1.

And for those who think the man is not in heaven now, Psalm 110:1 was a prophecy of what would occur AFTER Jesus ascended to heaven.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Talk of chastisement don’t scare me none. I don’t reword or reinterpret a single passage outa your book. Ain’t never said “oh it says this but that really means something else”.

However now you too are saying some passages say one thing and some say something else? Go to the contradiction thread and wash rinse repeat.

In the Gospel: not one single passage, not one, has Jesus say: I am God. Jesus says the opposite. I’m not going to list the number of times “who sent me, who I speak for” and “my power is given to me” is referenced.

Your report however should have some substance.

Add:

John 16:28
John 6:38
John 14:31
John 14:28 “the father is greater than I”? HUH?
John 15:10

Then please report that Jesus PRAYED to God in Matthew 26 and set up a future party not in Jesus’ kingdom but in his Father’s kingdom.

Anyone else want to snitch on me for making fun of stupid explanations of why this doesn’t mean what it says or it means something else? Y’all Speak Up but there is a difference between making fun of spin and making fun of what the book says.

Oh and if ya run around in Harris County wear your mask and no we don’t carry cooking bleach at the grocery stores here. Order that from Washington.

I believe you and I already had this discussion. Unfortunately you seem to have forgotten a few things from that time. In the mean time:

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. (Ali Imran 55)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I believe you and I already had this discussion. Unfortunately you seem to have forgotten a few things from that time. In the mean time:

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. (Ali Imran 55)

I discussed with him, too, about Revelation 1-3. Jesus is seen as the one who calls himself almighty. People usually say that he was God's spokesman. But yet, when we read the seven letters to the seven churches in 2-3, the AUTHOR, who allegedly only USED the man to speak, does indeed speak by calling himself the one who held the seven stars, walked among candlesticks.... i.e. said he was the one whom John saw (the man who was risen and alive) and introduced himself with every characteristic we read that John saw in chapter 1.

So, if he is a spokesman for God, then GOD is the one whom John saw in the vision who said he was dead and is alove. If what John SAW in chapter 1 that was unique to the MAN, why are the words coming from him to the church addressing Himself as the one who was seen to walk among the candlesticks and hold the seven stars in his hand, which was the RISEN MAN? We do not read that the author of the letters said, "I am the one who sent my spokesman who walked among the seven golden candlesticks."

I got no answer. Just a dodging of that issue.

[mfblume]

For those who do not believe Jesus is God, what is your reply to the fact that Jesus said he was almighty and, not merely spokesman due to the identity of the one speaking to the seven churches as the one who did the things that John saw the MAN alone do with descriptions of the man?

[mfblume]

The Spokesman idea in Revelation 1 means the words being spoken are not the Son's words. He is speaking AS IF he was God. That fails, because we have the words "spoken" relating these statements that can only apply to the SON.

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

And on and on. You get the drift. Here are the sources for the identity of the one speaking in the verses above:

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


So if the one speaking about John sending his letters to the seven churches said this...

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

....and He identified himself as the Alpha and Omega While he was at it, and the alpha and omega said this earlier...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


...then the one who is GOD must also be the MAN!