'Cause I'm Scared

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Now, on the flip side of that coin, let me also say this..........

I have friends who won't wear a pair of pants, cut their hair or many others things. Their reason for living that way is not because they believe that doing so will keep them out of heaven. They don't believe that at all. What they do believe is that when they dress that way, or refuse to go to certain places, etc., they are being pleasing to God. They're doing this out of their LOVE for Him and their desire to please Him. That is a whole different thing than to abstain from something out of FEAR that God will punish them eternally for doing it.

If I knew that letting my hair grow would please my husband, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's the same thing. If I believed that God would care one iota about how long my hair is, (or if I'm wearing pants, etc.), then I would do that in a heartbeat. Never a question asked. I don't think God cares about that FOR ME. If YOU think He cares what YOU wear, then you have to go according to what your heart is telling you. Maybe you think God thinks you are prettier with long hair? I don't know. honestly. But if you think it is pleasing to God for you to do something, than by all means do it.

On the other hand, if you think that Jesus' death on the cross was only the deposit on your salvation, and that you have to continue to add to the account by dressing a certain way, then you've made what Jesus did a farce.

Very well said, Margie.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Indeed... and if HE hath not given us a spirit of fear... who did?

Exactly.
IMO, primarily the same 2000 year+ stumbling block to the Kingdom of God. Man's religion.




Good thread BTW.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

In the same way, I am still influenced by those fears. The idea that I can speak in tongues, feel God's presence in a mighty way, and still wonder if I will go to Heaven because I'm not following those same "rules" I learned so many years ago.

It's been thirty years, but the fear is still there. It's there even though I know those doctrines were not, and are not, Biblical.

This is so sad, but I know exactly what you are saying. It takes a long, long time to overcome that and as we are saying here - you don't ever completely overcome it.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Great thread, D4T.

I was raised in a church in which the the pastor drove saints through fear and intimidation rather than leading through love.

His methods were extreme. Anything from scary rapture and demon films to the rock music seminars that focused on subliminal messages that could only be found by playing the music backwards. On one occasion, I can even remember an altar call to the song "Hotel California."

The fear and manipulation worked for a while. People would run to the altar at the end of the films, "pray through" and get baptized, only to walk away a few weeks or months later when the fear wore off. So, what the pastor learned is that fear keeps 'em around, therefore, more fear = better results. Lots of sermons about Hell, being left behind and submission were preached on a very regular basis.

In fact, I never heard a sermon on the fruit of the Spirit until I was a grown man. Never heard a sermon or Bible study about propitiation, reconciliation or righteousness until I was an adult.

That sort of environment is hard to escape, and from time to time I catch myself imitating what I learned. In those moments, I become very disgusted with myself.

I can remember the pastor calling for a seven day water fast, and then, when it was over, asking every one who had "made it" through the entire fast to walk up to the platform. The overcomers stood on the platform with him, and the rest of teh church stayed in their seats. He then told the "failures" that revival would come through those who had completed the fast, leaving the rest of the congregation to feel as though they had somehow failed God.

He separated the good from the bad in a very real and visible way. Many people left the church over the events of that evening, but many more came, because the pastor was very charismatic and passionate in evangelistic zeal.

I could tell stories about my childhood experiences in that church all day long, but I doubt the stories would change anything. Most people would just label me a bitter liberal.

My family eventually left that church because they felt like nothing they did was ever good enough. There was no joy in living for God. They've never come back.

In reality, they escaped from a cult. They are no longer in the situation, but they are still infuenced by what they experienced.

In the same way, I am still influenced by those fears. The idea that I can speak in tongues, feel God's presence in a mighty way, and still wonder if I will go to Heaven because I'm not following those same "rules" I learned so many years ago.

It's been thirty years, but the fear is still there. It's there even though I know those doctrines were not, and are not, Biblical.

I am left with this impression. Fear is not logical, and any preacher or church that peddles a doctrine of fear, with no attention to the love of God, is a cult.

EA,

Wow. I appreciate you sharing this. I think I can relate to your experiences quite well. I too was brought up with special speakers who were “professors” on Christian Rock, Hard Rock, and Heavy Metal. One in particular presented slide shows with reflections and images of a demon looking out from the screen of a television set, (supposedly after the power had been turned off) and records that played demonic messages in reverse. Fear. The only literature promoted for the young people back then, was “Turmoil in the Toy Box,” the Bible, or whatever else speakers happened to mention as good Christian reads. Of course, when one particular evangelist mentioned that he liked Louis LÁmour, (it was part of his sermon) he told the story apologetically, as if reading Westerns was borderline sinful.

I also remember our youth group watching a film on the rapture. We were discouraged from watching even Disney films, but somehow, this film made the cut. I remember the fear. Kids were writhing on the floor, wailing and weeping. “Don’t leave us behind!” “Don’t send us to hell God!” Then there was youth camp. Looking back now, it seemed like indoctrination designed exclusively for the youth. There was always an expectation for that one night of “fear fest.” Experiences and stories of youth dying in horrible car wrecks after rejecting the pleading preacher to pray or leaving service during alter call. Fear. I don’t wish to portray that part of my childhood as all bad, but those are the emotions and feelings that I remember the most from those days.

My decision to attend college thrilled my parents, but in the culture of our church, it was something that had to be done with a great deal of caution, as if I might not make it out believing in God anymore. Fear. I brought home questions about evolution to an elder in our church (he worked as a scientist). I can recall him rebuking me for engaging in debates, when I should have been a “good soldier,” teaching more bible studies instead. At that point, I began to reject the fear and pressure to “do what your told,” and began to search out truth for myself. I can’t believe that God enjoyed this environment, which led to such an unbalanced perception of him, and life in general. In some ways I think I have become hardened inside. I’m not sure, but I know I don’t want that for my (future) children.

To be fair, I will say that I did have good times. I was born again in this assembly. I met and married my wife. I gained a great deal of knowledge about God’s word. But the constant, even up until my wife and I decided to quit attending, was fear. Fear if we left “The Ship.” Fear that if we left, or thought for ourselves, we were somehow rejecting God’s will for our lives. Fear…

D4T, did you start this thread around (10-31-09) intentionally? I never did like Halloween…

One of my favorites: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

EA,

Wow. I appreciate you sharing this. I think I can relate to your experiences quite well. I too was brought up with special speakers who were “professors” on Christian Rock, Hard Rock, and Heavy Metal. One in particular presented slide shows with reflections and images of a demon looking out from the screen of a television set, (supposedly after the power had been turned off) and records that played demonic messages in reverse. Fear. The only literature promoted for the young people back then, was “Turmoil in the Toy Box,” the Bible, or whatever else speakers happened to mention as good Christian reads. Of course, when one particular evangelist mentioned that he liked Louis LÁmour, (it was part of his sermon) he told the story apologetically, as if reading Westerns was borderline sinful.

I also remember our youth group watching a film on the rapture. We were discouraged from watching even Disney films, but somehow, this film made the cut. I remember the fear. Kids were writhing on the floor, wailing and weeping. “Don’t leave us behind!” “Don’t send us to hell God!” Then there was youth camp. Looking back now, it seemed like indoctrination designed exclusively for the youth. There was always an expectation for that one night of “fear fest.” Experiences and stories of youth dying in horrible car wrecks after rejecting the pleading preacher to pray or leaving service during alter call. Fear. I don’t wish to portray that part of my childhood as all bad, but those are the emotions and feelings that I remember the most from those days.

My decision to attend college thrilled my parents, but in the culture of our church, it was something that had to be done with a great deal of caution, as if I might not make it out believing in God anymore. Fear. I brought home questions about evolution to an elder in our church (he worked as a scientist). I can recall him rebuking me for engaging in debates, when I should have been a “good soldier,” teaching more bible studies instead. At that point, I began to reject the fear and pressure to “do what your told,” and began to search out truth for myself. I can’t believe that God enjoyed this environment, which led to such an unbalanced perception of him, and life in general. In some ways I think I have become hardened inside. I’m not sure, but I know I don’t want that for my (future) children.

To be fair, I will say that I did have good times. I was born again in this assembly. I met and married my wife. I gained a great deal of knowledge about God’s word. But the constant, even up until my wife and I decided to quit attending, was fear. Fear if we left “The Ship.” Fear that if we left, or thought for ourselves, we were somehow rejecting God’s will for our lives. Fear…

D4T, did you start this thread around (10-31-09) intentionally? I never did like Halloween…

One of my favorites: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7.

Thanks for the story. I just wanted to say that my cousin used to own a TV that would do that. If you cut the power on and off repeatedly, a picture that looked something like a demon or Satan would appear on it when ya hit off the final time. Kinda creepy. Peronally I think it was just screen burn that caused it. But still it was a creepy picture.

[shag]

It seems when we are raised in certain "atmospheres" and "teaching" concerning "religion", and later on figure out that things may not be that way, according to our own interpretation of scripture....then at some point, we must tear down and rebuild from and according to our intepretation and conviction of things. That can be fearful. Because like the saying goes: When you go to take out certain structure or walls in a building to rebuild it, one must be careful, if they take out the wrong thing or wall, the whole building can come down.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

D4T, did you start this thread around (10-31-09) intentionally? I never did like Halloween…

LOL... No sir... I never even thought about it. I don't do the halloween thing so it isn't even in my thought processes.

I just started it on the heels (within minutes) of an email exchange that got me to thinking about this subject. No reason beyond that.

Good catch though.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

LOL... No sir... I never even thought about it. I don't do the halloween thing so it isn't even in my thought processes.

I just started it on the heels (within minutes) of an email exchange that got me to thinking about this subject. No reason beyond that.

Good catch though.

Actually, today is the 31st - you started this thread yesterday and it's been a great thread.

I've received many emails that people need this discussion because of what they are going through.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Actually, today is the 31st - you started this thread yesterday and it's been a great thread.

I've received many emails that people need this discussion because of what they are going through.

Yes ma'am... I am appreciative for the blessing it has been to me and that it is a blessing to others

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

EA,

Wow. I appreciate you sharing this. I think I can relate to your experiences quite well. I too was brought up with special speakers who were “professors” on Christian Rock, Hard Rock, and Heavy Metal. One in particular presented slide shows with reflections and images of a demon looking out from the screen of a television set, (supposedly after the power had been turned off) and records that played demonic messages in reverse. Fear. The only literature promoted for the young people back then, was “Turmoil in the Toy Box,” the Bible, or whatever else speakers happened to mention as good Christian reads. Of course, when one particular evangelist mentioned that he liked Louis LÁmour, (it was part of his sermon) he told the story apologetically, as if reading Westerns was borderline sinful.

I also remember our youth group watching a film on the rapture. We were discouraged from watching even Disney films, but somehow, this film made the cut. I remember the fear. Kids were writhing on the floor, wailing and weeping. “Don’t leave us behind!” “Don’t send us to hell God!” Then there was youth camp. Looking back now, it seemed like indoctrination designed exclusively for the youth. There was always an expectation for that one night of “fear fest.” Experiences and stories of youth dying in horrible car wrecks after rejecting the pleading preacher to pray or leaving service during alter call. Fear. I don’t wish to portray that part of my childhood as all bad, but those are the emotions and feelings that I remember the most from those days.

My decision to attend college thrilled my parents, but in the culture of our church, it was something that had to be done with a great deal of caution, as if I might not make it out believing in God anymore. Fear. I brought home questions about evolution to an elder in our church (he worked as a scientist). I can recall him rebuking me for engaging in debates, when I should have been a “good soldier,” teaching more bible studies instead. At that point, I began to reject the fear and pressure to “do what your told,” and began to search out truth for myself. I can’t believe that God enjoyed this environment, which led to such an unbalanced perception of him, and life in general. In some ways I think I have become hardened inside. I’m not sure, but I know I don’t want that for my (future) children.

To be fair, I will say that I did have good times. I was born again in this assembly. I met and married my wife. I gained a great deal of knowledge about God’s word. But the constant, even up until my wife and I decided to quit attending, was fear. Fear if we left “The Ship.” Fear that if we left, or thought for ourselves, we were somehow rejecting God’s will for our lives. Fear…

D4T, did you start this thread around (10-31-09) intentionally? I never did like Halloween…

One of my favorites: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7.

Man... reading your post brought back lots of memories. Backward masking... those movies about people who were left behind after the rapture (who can forget the opening scene where they are about to chop this womans head off and she starts screaming... OKAY... I'LL DENY HIM! and an earthquake comes and everybody runs off. The shaking of the earthquake causes the guillotine to release and it cuts her head off anyway right after she had denied Christ)

It really makes you realize that fear was the popular motivating factor in the 80's. Not to mention 88 reasons why God is coming back in 1988.