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04-13-2018, 04:44 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,649
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
are you arguing that those who believe false eschatology are lost?
or are you arguing that because Apostolics have various beliefs in eschatology, we should accept that Trinitarians might be saved?
or are you arguing that if we think Trinitarians are lost because they have not obeyed the gospel, that we are lost if we are not perfect in the understanding of our eschatology?
I believe you must obey the gospel to be saved ( Acts 2:38).
It's the ABCs of the bible.
I think that eschatology is the PhD of biblical understanding and not having perfect understanding does not send you to hell.
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The bolded gets closest. Why why Trins be held to the standard of loving the truth and we would not? Why would Jesus not judge us for teaching falsely about his coming? Paul said certain people would try to DECEIVE YOU about the 2nd coming in 2 Thess 1-5.
If the Spirit counts such men as deceivers do you think they will go to Heaven?
And really its not just about the rapture. Its the foundation teachings of Christ.
Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 04-13-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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04-13-2018, 04:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Who is throwing the tantrum? Its not me who is teaching that beards are wrong or a sin and that if you wear one you are in rebellion with no scripture period.
I am making a simple observation. It has been said that the rapture teaching does not matter. As if Jesus never made it clear. As if Paul did not make it clear. As if the Bible doesnt make the timing of the rapture clearly after the man of sin is revealed. That its not as important as "standards" some of which have no Biblical basis at all!
So I am the one throwing the tantrum?
Lets see if I am making this up.
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04-13-2018, 05:08 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,808
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
I wonder if anyone is going to bother producing the Scriptures that prove "wrong eschatology has no effect on salvation"?
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I guess not. Oh, well, another day on AFF!
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04-13-2018, 05:32 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,639
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
I guess not. Oh, well, another day on AFF!
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You find the word Eschatology in the Bible I will give you 22 million dollars. Since I can't find that, then that means I can't find a scripture that says one way or the other. I I was a betting man I would say post trib. Because Jesus references Days of Noah and Lot, which we know they were carried through both times of their Tribulations. Then what it says in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
But as far as just saying it's this way or no way I can't say that, because who knows? Only the Father! It's in His hands.
But as far as that goes that's the most I can truthfully say for sure.
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04-13-2018, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
The bolded gets closest. Why why Trins be held to the standard of loving the truth and we would not? Why would Jesus not judge us for teaching falsely about his coming? Paul said certain people would try to DECEIVE YOU about the 2nd coming in 2 Thess 1-5.
If the Spirit counts such men as deceivers do you think they will go to Heaven?
And really its not just about the rapture. Its the foundation teachings of Christ.
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Knowing who God is, is one thing. Being baptized in His name receiving His Spirit is one thing. But knowing when He's coming you don't even know! Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." That leaves no excuses. John 3:5 says "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." That's clear, don't pass go don't collect 200 dollars. Mark 16:16 is clear "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." It leaves no out! How is it supposed to be done? Matthew 28:19 says "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Letting you know the name is the same for all three Father Son and Holy Ghost, and we must be baptized in it. What is the name? Acts 2:38-39 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Peter tells you in Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Theres many more but Paul says in Romans 8:9-11 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." There's a curse and a blessing, but what it all boils down to. The most important thing. "If you have not the Spirit of Christ, you are none of His."
These doctrines are very specific and many witnesses. The second coming is going to happen, if you believe not you are calling God a liar. But never once did Jesus tell you specifically as He did His plan of salvation. He made it so you don't have to guess, it's perfectly clear. He simply said in Matthew 25:13 "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." But left the parable that says verse 4- 7 "But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. [7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps." Meaning keep your lamp and stay full of the Spirit the oil. Stay full of the Holy Spirit and Jesus promised in John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
So stay full of the Spirit so that when 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 happens you can even hear the trump of God. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
__________________
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Last edited by 1ofthechosen; 04-13-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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04-13-2018, 06:10 PM
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This is still that!
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 9,720
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
The bolded gets closest. Why why Trins be held to the standard of loving the truth and we would not? Why would Jesus not judge us for teaching falsely about his coming? Paul said certain people would try to DECEIVE YOU about the 2nd coming in 2 Thess 1-5.
If the Spirit counts such men as deceivers do you think they will go to Heaven?
And really its not just about the rapture. Its the foundation teachings of Christ.
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Brother Michael,
there are areas of eschatology that I think put us on dangerous ground
* saying the resurrection has already taken place
* saying that there is no eternal judgement
so you are correct in saying that eschatology matters.
2 Timothy 2:14 Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The LORD knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the LORD must turn away from wickedness."
Hebrews 6:1-2 1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
Last edited by Amanah; 04-13-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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04-13-2018, 06:21 PM
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This is still that!
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Brother Esaias teaches that pre trib rapture is heresy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.
That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.
That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.
The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.
The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.
This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.
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http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ghlight=heresy
__________________
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
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04-13-2018, 06:24 PM
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This is still that!
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
Heresies are dissensions from diversity of opinions, and that is what we are experiencing in this thread.
but no one in this thread is denying the resurrection or eternal judgement.
1 Corinthians 11:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
Last edited by Amanah; 04-13-2018 at 06:34 PM.
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04-13-2018, 09:10 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
2 Timothy 3:16-17,
16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Every part of the Holy Scriptures has been breathed by the Father into the minds of His chosen holy men, to put pen to parchment. We need to seek from the Author that same inspiration, for understanding all that He inspired to be written.
Every verse is therefore profitable for doctrine. Every verse is profitable for reproof. Every verse is profitable for correction. Every verse is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
And all of this is for one particular purpose: perfection, or maturity, lacking nothing.
If we cannot make use of any verse of the Bible for either doctrine, reproof, correction, or instruction in righteousness, we are in some way insufficiently mature, and in some way, however small, of not being equipped for some good work.
The onus then is on us to push back against that lack, and strive for perfection or maturity. We need every part of the Scripture to do that. Especially the parts that are hard to understand, or hard to come to grips with, morally.
If any of us admit to not understanding something, that is fine. Make the admission. But have a plan in place to address that and rectify it to the best of our ability. The study helps are available and many of them are free.
Accepting stagnation or giving yourself a liberty to not grow in your knowledge and understanding of the Holy Scriptures is to reject the theme of inspiration, because really, if you were convinced something was truly inspired by God, and if you loved Him unreservedly, you'd do everything in your power to take what He inspired and embrace it with all your might, and push past any hindrance that would keep you from understanding what He has breathed into existence for your perfection.
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04-13-2018, 09:45 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
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Re: The Apostolic Light Doctrine
I’m stuck somewhere between orthodox preterist and heretical preterist. Can’t figure it out.
Guess I’ll just fold and call it a day.
Byyyeeee
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