Lee Stoneking Addresses UN

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

They asked Jesus what WORK should they do to have everlasting life.

Walks and Shazeep, what WORK gives us eternal life? What was Jesus' answer? What say you?

WORKS MUST FOLLOW salvation, and that's what you are reading about with sheep and goats. But what works actually SAVE US before judgment comes?

Why ask me or Zeep what work gives one eternal life? Jesus explained this often.

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

He did not charge 10 bucks for it either Blume

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I quote Jesus, and you quote letters from someone who never actually experienced His teaching. Nice.

So you say PAUL WAS INEPT? You dent the teachings of Paul? I quoted Jesus, too! But you never responded to the words I quoted as you don't respond to Paul's. And you say YOU AGREE with the Bible? Thanks for confessing you disagree with the Bible.

Paul said this as well:

1Co 14:37 KJV If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Do you deny that?

You also seem upset, why? I left out no context.

No one's upset. And you left out context in the teachings where righteousness for salvation is given freely without good deeds by faith in the work of the cross. I said it again and again why you miss context. Are you not reading?

Look at Jesus' words:

Joh 6:28-29 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you believe God SENT HIS "SON" and that Jesus is "God's SON" and He sent Him to die and resurrect?

I do not believe that your interpretation of these passages is "truth" and I do not acknowledge you as qualified to define what is "truth" or not "truth" to me, as you seem to acknowledge yourself.

You are not reading. I am asking you guys to show me what these verses ARE saying, and you never seem to do that. I am asking. Show me where I am wrong and why and how from the verses I am quoting. Anyone can SAY a person is wrong about the verse and it's THEIR PERSONAL interpretation of it, but never say what it is ACTUALLY saying.

I challenge you to say what those verses ARE saying, something you and Shazeep are repeatedly avoiding to do.

I do not acknowledge letters written to various churches that contradict what Jesus taught as "inspired"

So, ,you disagree with the parts of the Bible. You say the epistles CONTRADICT what Jesus taught.

Joh 6:28-29 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

What about those verses above?

You do not have an answer to verses that are attributed to Jesus that I posted out of your bible to demonstrate my points, as per your request to use them.

I answered them. I told you good works are needful in their proper place, which place I showed you was AFTER one is saved by Christ's work of the cross. Now I showed you what Jesus said THAT is exactly what Paul agreed with in the verses I quoted.

So that leaves you one option really. As a true believer, and as per your own view of yourself, and your own criteria, you must now drink deadly poison to demonstrate that you are a true believer, as per your list of "signs of true believers" while ridiculing Muslims above. Please tape it and have someone post it here for us.

If you believe Jesus' words, did you drink deadly poison to prove you are a true follower of His words? Show me the video. You took that out of context, .... .again.

It's like Paul taking up a serpent and it biting but not killing him in Acts. So, by the way YOU handle those statements of Jesus, show me you're a follower.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Why ask me or Zeep what work gives one eternal life? Jesus explained this often.

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

He did not charge 10 bucks for it either Blume

You mean like your muslim clerics?

And you are great at avoiding the overall context once again.

Mat 19:21-26 KJV Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. (23) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (24) And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (25) When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? (26) But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Men cannot DO THAT WORK. Jesus said it's impossible! But He said GOD CAN and that explains how He enables us to do what we cannot do on our won. But you don't read all the context to see that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The sheep from the goats is the ONLY issue that, according to Jesus, saved these people

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

In context, Jesus is speaking to the Jewish people. Those that are listening know He is referring to what was written in the prophets, namely here:

Zechariah 10:3 "Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the Lord of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle."

He is saying, Today, this scripture is fulfilled.

Jesus, as I said, showed you the way. You choose that way or not. Jesus showed you to pray and fast. Jesus taught you about charity and in His parable he clearly showed that lack of charity condemns you. Jesus taught you that greed will deny you entry to paradise. Jesus did not teach you that a magic formula will save you.

He taught that no man can be saved without Him and His work on the cross. Nothing magic about that, simply power. The fruit of the spirit would be evident in a life submitted to God. That comes after salvation and is something to be worked on daily.

I can drag myself up a flight of stairs on bits of glass to prove my love and devotion to God. It certainly doesn't save me. Good deeds do not save us alone.

James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

Here is that explanation:

Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;"

This is what Jesus said:

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


In the same chapter, Jesus also said this:

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Does what you say sound anything like what Jesus said Blume? No, it does not.

This is in Old and New Testaments.

What else does the Bible say about judgment?

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Ecclesiastes 12:

13The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

II Cor 5 says it:

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Revelations 20 says it:

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books

And are you interpreting these passages to mean good or bad "outside" of obeying the truth? We are judged "inside" of truth by our deeds, not on our deeds alone. He is in effect teaching we will be judged by His Words after having believed and obeying the gospel.

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

II Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

There are strings attached to our good deeds. And it is only free is you accept the truth - meaning "freely given".

[mfblume]

Explain these verses OF JESUS:

Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

THE WAY not A WAY. You give us YOUR interpretation.

Joh 10:9 KJV I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

THE DOOR not A DOOR. Give us YOUR interpretation, Walks.

Joh 6:45-51 KJV It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (46) Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (47) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (48) I am that bread of life. (49) Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. (50) This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (51) I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 6:53-58 KJV Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (55) For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (56) He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. (57) As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. (58) This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


And Jesus also CONDONED THE WORDS OF THE APOSTLES:

Joh 17:20 KJV Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That means all those apostles taught are OF GOD and SEALED WITH JESUS' APPROVAL.

What happened to your faith in what JESUS said, if you deny the apostles' epistles? he said all would believe on HIM THROUGH THEIR WORD. You saying he was wrong?

[mfblume]

Walks in Islam, ,you can tell us every hour that our interpretation is wrong. But you never tell us what the words of Jesus actually mean. So enlighten us. I am only saying what those words are saying. It's not divine interpretation for me. I claim everyone who reads those verses without an agenda for a specific belief will get what I clam they refer to, for that's how I approached them. So, once again, tell us what THEY DO mean.

Gotta run. Work time. Will check back tonight. And I have a study on Matthew 25 and the sheep and goats. Will get it out and explain it, and show me where I am wrong if you claim it's my interpretation alone.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

In context, Jesus is speaking to the Jewish people. Those that are listening know He is referring to what was written in the prophets, namely here:

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

That's funny. Your "in context" is in direct contradiction to what it says it is referring to, which is "all the nations". I think it is referring to exactly what I said it is referring to - judgment of all mankind. Jesus had plenty to say about the upcoming judgment of Israel. Just not here.

What is it about you people that you pretend that there is always some "context" that makes words directly quoted from your own book mean something other than what it actually says?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Explain these verses OF JESUS:

Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

THE WAY not A WAY. You give us YOUR interpretation.

Joh 10:9 KJV I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

THE DOOR not A DOOR. Give us YOUR interpretation, Walks.

Joh 6:45-51 KJV It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (46) Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (47) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (48) I am that bread of life. (49) Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. (50) This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (51) I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 6:53-58 KJV Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (55) For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (56) He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. (57) As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. (58) This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


And Jesus also CONDONED THE WORDS OF THE APOSTLES:

Joh 17:20 KJV Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That means all those apostles taught are OF GOD and SEALED WITH JESUS' APPROVAL.

What happened to your faith in what JESUS said, if you deny the apostles' epistles? he said all would believe on HIM THROUGH THEIR WORD. You saying he was wrong?

I already told you that this means that you are to do exactly what Jesus did and do exactly what Jesus said to do, pray exactly as Jesus prayed and pray to exactly who Jesus taught you to pray to. In this, you acknowledge Jesus. This is actually the third time I have said this.

You are like the sorrowful man who realizes you can't sell everything and follow Him. This must be why you keep demanding something else.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

That's funny. Your "in context" is in direct contradiction to what it says it is referring to, which is "all the nations". I think it is referring to exactly what I said it is referring to - judgment of all mankind. Jesus had plenty to say about the upcoming judgment of Israel. Just not here.

What is it about you people that you pretend that there is always some "context" that makes words directly quoted from your own book mean something other than what it actually says?

He was speaking to a Jewish audience his whole ministry. So, I say, as in Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" - to the Jew pre-eminently - because "unto them were committed the oracles of God."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I already told you that this means that you are to do exactly what Jesus did and do exactly what Jesus said to do, pray exactly as Jesus prayed and pray to exactly who Jesus taught you to pray to. In this, you acknowledge Jesus. This is actually the third time I have said this.

Do you do these things?

You are like the sorrowful man who realizes you can't sell everything and follow Him. This must be why you keep demanding something else.

Have you done this?