Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrine?

[bkstokes]

TR France

In Synan's study, did he talk about the rate of people receiving the Holy Ghost? Has it increased, stayed the same, or decreased say for example in this last decade?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

TR France

In Synan's study, did he talk about the rate of people receiving the Holy Ghost? Has it increased, stayed the same, or decreased say for example in this last decade?

I haven't seen this actual study. Keith4him is the one who referenced Synan's study and the 90% figure. You might want to check with Keith for more info on that.

The point I was making on that was that I would consider that number believable, based on my own experiences and observations in Pentecost over the years... and also based on the fact that I consider Synan to be generally impartial and credible in matters like this.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I haven't seen this actual study. Keith4him is the one who referenced Synan's study and the 90% figure. You might want to check with Keith for more info on that.

The point I was making on that was that I would consider that number believable, based on my own experiences and observations in Pentecost over the years... and also based on the fact that I consider Synan to be generally impartial and credible in matters like this.

Sorry

I know you like to study, so I thought that you might have read it also.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Sorry

I know you like to study, so I thought that you might have read it also.

No problem.

I'll take that as a compliment, but I actually don't think study as much as I should.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

TR France

In Synan's study, did he talk about the rate of people receiving the Holy Ghost? Has it increased, stayed the same, or decreased say for example in this last decade?

Dr. Daniel Segraves was in the particular class where Synan addressed the question.

He was talking about Pentecostals and the initial evidence doctrine and how many in differing Pentecostal groups claim to receive it.

He mentioned all the various groups then had Dr. Daniel Segraves stand up and said to him before the entire class of PhD Scholars, the decline in the experience and teaching is not so with you Oneness Pentecostals and quoted a # to Dr. Segraves, Dr. Segraves said that the number somewhere above 90% was accurate.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Dr. Daniel Segraves was in the particular class where Synan addressed the question.

He was talking about Pentecostals and the initial evidence doctrine and how many in differing Pentecostal groups claim to receive it.

He mentioned all the various groups then had Dr. Daniel Segraves stand up and said to him before the entire class of PhD Scholars, the decline in the experience and teaching is not so with you Oneness Pentecostals and quoted a # to Dr. Segraves, Dr. Segraves said that the number somewhere above 90% was accurate.

You get what you preach.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Dr. Daniel Segraves was in the particular class where Synan addressed the question.

He was talking about Pentecostals and the initial evidence doctrine and how many in differing Pentecostal groups claim to receive it.

He mentioned all the various groups then had Dr. Daniel Segraves stand up and said to him before the entire class of PhD Scholars, the decline in the experience and teaching is not so with you Oneness Pentecostals and quoted a # to Dr. Segraves, Dr. Segraves said that the number somewhere above 90% was accurate.

Obviously this is because the Oneness groups teach that speaking in tongues is part of the new birth. If you teach hell or tongues then I can guarantee you will have folks speaking in tongues just as rapidly as the denominational world has folks being "born again" by saying the sinner's prayer.

I think that the same would be true with Oneness groups stressing baptism more than other groups. You can't even be saved in most Oneness churches unless you speak in tongues and are baptized.

Look at the number of spirit baptisms versus water baptism and the relation to conversions. See page 2.

You have an average of 47 conversions per church.
Of these 47 only 12 speak with tongues which is 25% of converts.
Of these 47 only 14 were water baptized which is 29% of converts.

http://www.ag.org/top/About/Statisti...rt_Summary.pdf

The way I see it the figures aren't comparable at all. Oneness churches don't even count someone as saved until they have been baptized and have spoke in tongues. So naturally, the only people in the church who would be considered not tongue talkers would be those seeking to be saved and maybe small children.

Now, the question I have is how many of those really speak in tongues? We have all seen people who we know didn't speak in tongues and then were proclaimed as having received the Holy Ghost.

Also, if you were to visit one of the "one-stepper" churches that didn't preach tongues or hell then I think it is very possible that the stats would be much lower than 90%?

Dr. Seagraves should have informed all those PhDs that you aren't considered even born again until you speak in tongues in the Oneness organizations. This would directly explain the difference.

[DaveC519]

Hello deltaguitar,

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Obviously this is because the Oneness groups teach that speaking in tongues is part of the new birth. If you teach hell or tongues then I can guarantee you will have folks speaking in tongues just as rapidly as the denominational world has folks being "born again" by saying the sinner's prayer.

I think that the same would be true with Oneness groups stressing baptism more than other groups. You can't even be saved in most Oneness churches unless you speak in tongues and are baptized.

Don't Oneness groups teach that being "Spirit-filled" is the actual part of the New Birth vs. the action of "speaking in tongues"? Speaking in tongues happens to be the recurring initial sign that someone has been filled, but it's the Spirit-filling that is part of the New Birth.

Look at the number of spirit baptisms versus water baptism and the relation to conversions. See page 2.

You have an average of 47 conversions per church.
Of these 47 only 12 speak with tongues which is 25% of converts.
Of these 47 only 14 were water baptized which is 29% of converts.

http://www.ag.org/top/About/Statisti...rt_Summary.pdf

The way I see it the figures aren't comparable at all. Oneness churches don't even count someone as saved until they have been baptized and have spoke in tongues. So naturally, the only people in the church who would be considered not tongue talkers would be those seeking to be saved and maybe small children.

Now, the question I have is how many of those really speak in tongues? We have all seen people who we know didn't speak in tongues and then were proclaimed as having received the Holy Ghost.

Also, if you were to visit one of the "one-stepper" churches that didn't preach tongues or hell then I think it is very possible that the stats would be much lower than 90%?

I think the numbers are higher in OP churches because they actually hold altar services and encourage ppl to seek for the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

And if there are individuals who are pronounced "filled" without really speaking in tongues, then it becomes evident to the Church (and the individual) after a short time that these are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, and still need to be filled.

[A_PoMo]

What was the question again?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

What was the question again?