Israel is an abomination

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by shag

Do u view Rev. 22:15 as following the new heavens and earth, and the 2nd death lake of fire?

Or preceding…

What’s your take on that verse?

Yes, absolutely, after the resurrection and judgment of the wicked. It is whoever, a general imagery of the reward of the saints and the reward of the wicked.

That's how the unit starts: 12..“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13..I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

The reference to "outside" the city is not literal like the sinners will be in the suburbs. It is straight forward reference to the O.T. law. Jesus died "outside of the camp" (Heb 13:12-13), which was the curse for the blasphemer (Lev 24:14, 23). It just symbolizes exclusion and shame. It is figurative language that it is easily understood by the author's implied reader.

Figurative language is in many cases (but not always), not true, non factual, contradictory, or absurd, and it is supported by an obvious known sensible fact. E.g. "I can hear you snoring a mile away", or more a biblical example, "Behold the Lamb of God!". In the first case, I cannot obviously hear a snoring a mile away. In the last case, obviously that's a man, not a lamb, so the speaker is appealing to an implied cultural knowledge in the listener's mind to evoke a symbolism that conveys a message. However, the snoring is real, and something was indeed "Behold", so beware that when we use figurative language, it will be mixed with factual things, events, places, people, etc.... That's where study, good judgment, and understanding of how we communicate plays an important role to know what is figurative and what it is not.

What do you understand?

[shag]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Yes, absolutely, after the resurrection and judgment of the wicked. It is whoever, a general imagery of the reward of the saints and the reward of the wicked.

That's how the unit starts: 12..“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13..I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

The reference to "outside" the city is not literal like the sinners will be in the suburbs. It is straight forward reference to the O.T. law. Jesus died "outside of the camp" (Heb 13:12-13), which was the curse for the blasphemer (Lev 24:14, 23). It just symbolizes exclusion and shame. It is figurative language that it is easily understood by the author's implied reader.

Figurative language is in many cases (but not always), not true, non factual, contradictory, or absurd, and it is supported by an obvious known sensible fact. E.g. "I can hear you snoring a mile away", or more a biblical example, "Behold the Lamb of God!". In the first case, I cannot obviously hear a snoring a mile away. In the last case, obviously that's a man, not a lamb, so the speaker is appealing to an implied cultural knowledge in the listener's mind to evoke a symbolism that conveys a message. However, the snoring is real, and something was indeed "Behold", so beware that when we use figurative language, it will be mixed with factual things, events, places, people, etc.... That's where study, good judgment, and understanding of how we communicate plays an important role to know what is figurative and what it is not.

What do you understand?

I will respond to this later when I have time, it might be two or three days.
I have a lot of thoughts I would like to express, but don’t have time to do so right now. I can say that I sure don’t have everything figured out…
I’m kind of where Paul said, I know nothing, save Jesus Christ and him crucified


For now I’ll say, (Within how that Rev 22 verse relate to these..) I’m not sure the difference in Gal 4:26), the “heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb 12:22) AND Rev. 21 (I will show u the bride, described as treasure(valuable jewels etc), as in the OT, you will be to me a special treasure(Ex. 19:5, Mal. 3:17) and the treasure hid in the field is the church, IMO) as all descriptions being His church, (not a physical city w “streets of gold”)



Then there’s Isaiah 19:1 compared to Rev 1:7. “Seeing God coming on/in the clouds”

Remember that old song, “this may be the cloud he’s coming back on…”



It also seems strange to me that a new and better covenant would only last half as long as the old covenant

[diakonos]

When someone says, “I’m Jewish…”

[loran adkins]

Originally Posted by shag

I will respond to this later when I have time, it might be two or three days.
I have a lot of thoughts I would like to express, but don’t have time to do so right now. I can say that I sure don’t have everything figured out…
I’m kind of where Paul said, I know nothing, save Jesus Christ and him crucified


For now I’ll say, (Within how that Rev 22 verse relate to these..) I’m not sure the difference in Gal 4:26), the “heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb 12:22) AND Rev. 21 (I will show u the bride, described as treasure(valuable jewels etc), as in the OT, you will be to me a special treasure(Ex. 19:5, Mal. 3:17) and the treasure hid in the field is the church, IMO) as all descriptions being His church, (not a physical city w “streets of gold”)



Then there’s Isaiah 19:1 compared to Rev 1:7. “Seeing God coming on/in the clouds”

Remember that old song, “this may be the cloud he’s coming back on…”



It also seems strange to me that a new and better covenant would only last half as long as the old covenant

Several years back I ask the same question, but I ask if the old covenant was over several thousand years why would the new covenant be only 1000 years. Speaking of the 1000 year millennial. That is just another reason I believe the new covenant started when Christ gave his life for our sins and was in full effect when God finally destroyed Jerusalem and the old temple system in 70 ad.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

When someone says, “I’m Jewish…”

Are they the Klingon of god?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

I

It also seems strange to me that a new and better covenant would only last half as long as the old covenant

The Old Covenant lasted from approximately 1500 BC to around 30 AD or so, which is about 1500 years.

The New Covenant started around 30 AD and is still in effect, so it has lasted so far about 2000 years. And, it is an everlasting covenant so will continue for all eternity.

So where are people getting the idea that the New Covenant only lasts approximately 750 years???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by loran adkins

Several years back I ask the same question, but I ask if the old covenant was over several thousand years why would the new covenant be only 1000 years.

Say wut?