1Co11.2-16. Instincts. The Cover of Shame.

[Amanah]

Other biblical examples

Rebekah Veiling Herself

In Genesis 24:65, Rebekah veils herself before meeting Isaac, demonstrating modesty and respect.

"Then Rebekah took a veil and covered herself, and when Isaac came, she veiled herself." (Genesis 24:65, NKJV)

Old Testament Law of Jealousy

In Numbers 5:18, the priest uncovers the woman's head as part of the ritual for suspected adultery.

"The priest shall bring her near and uncover her head." (Numbers 5:18, NKJV)

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Other biblical examples

Rebekah Veiling Herself

In Genesis 24:65, Rebekah veils herself before meeting Isaac, demonstrating modesty and respect.

"Then Rebekah took a veil and covered herself, and when Isaac came, she veiled herself." (Genesis 24:65, NKJV)

Old Testament Law of Jealousy

In Numbers 5:18, the priest uncovers the woman's head as part of the ritual for suspected adultery.

"The priest shall bring her near and uncover her head." (Numbers 5:18, NKJV)

And then, of course there is this.

Genesis 38

[15] When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

And then, of course there is this.

Genesis 38

[15] When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

Note from ESV study Bible:

GENESIS—NOTE ON 38:15 When Judah sees Tamar, he assumes that she is a prostitute, for she had covered her face, thus effectively achieving anonymity. Since betrothed women wore veils, Judah’s belief that Tamar is a prostitute would not have been simply based on her covered face. Her lone presence by the roadside possibly contributed to his assumption; Jer. 3:2 links “waysides” with prostitution.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

And then, of course there is this.

Genesis 38

[15] When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

Originally Posted by Amanah

Note from ESV study Bible:

GENESIS—NOTE ON 38:15 When Judah sees Tamar, he assumes that she is a prostitute, for she had covered her face, thus effectively achieving anonymity. Since betrothed women wore veils, Judah’s belief that Tamar is a prostitute would not have been simply based on her covered face. Her lone presence by the roadside possibly contributed to his assumption; Jer. 3:2 links “waysides” with prostitution.

Commentary is just that. It is subject to being wrong. If you think about it, what we are doing is commentary, and our commentary is a case of one or both of us being wrong, unless there are three commenting, possibly everyone is wrong.

But think about it in relation to our present culture. Would someone assume that they had seen a prostitute if she were wearing a veil? And her face was covered?

Probably not.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Commentary is just that. It is subject to being wrong. If you think about it, what we are doing is commentary, and our commentary is a case of one or both of us being wrong, unless there are three commenting, possibly everyone is wrong.

But think about it in relation to our present culture. Would someone assume that they had seen a prostitute if she were wearing a veil? And her face was covered?

Probably not.

But we are discussing 3000 year old ancient near eastern culture, not modern American "culture".

Of course commentaries can be wrong. And so can AFF posters. And...?

Not sure what your point is here.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

And then, of course there is this. Genesis 38
[15] When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

Whatever the reason for Tamar's covering is, it wasn't done from a command of God. To quote this story does nothing to provide proof that God commands Christian women to veil. It is only an example of a cultural practise which comes from within Man, not God.

Where are the commands of God for the veil, shown from Ge to Paul? They aren't there. The evidence of the veil from the OT doesn't show proof that it comes from commands. A view of 1Co11 must be found which is in agreement with the evidence. The veil view needs to be modified to agree with the evidence.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Don, how much of the New Testament do you believe that Paul just made up?

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don, how much of the New Testament do you believe that Paul just made up?

The following is quoted from another post in this thread. "This poster won't be replied to by donfriesen1, because many of his responses are only attempts at character assassinations - poor hermeneutics. He has stated in another post that his role is to mock me. Imagine that, an evangelist sees his role is to mock the one he thinks is lost.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Whatever the reason for Tamar's covering is, it wasn't done from a command of God. To quote this story does nothing to provide proof that God commands Christian women to veil. It is only an example of a cultural practise which comes from within Man, not God.

Where are the commands of God for the veil, shown from Ge to Paul? They aren't there. The evidence of the veil from the OT doesn't show proof that it comes from commands. A view of 1Co11 must be found which is in agreement with the evidence. The veil view needs to be modified to agree with the evidence.

Brother,

My point has been made. Sorry if it was a bit vague.

We have two women in Genesis that veiled themselves. They are in the same time period. They married into the same family. One was considered to be a harlot. The other was Rebecca.

Notice though the difference in the reaction to these women wearing a veil. One has been suggested to have done so out of modesty and respect. The other was suggested to have done so as a disguise?

This is the challenge with trying to exegete this subject of the veil. Sincere people interpret it the way that they want to believe it. It is prime territory for conformational bias. Rebecca veiled out of modesty and respect. Tamar out of a need to remain anonymous.

I have my own idea. Maybe I’ll get into it. Probably not. Because I don’t see it being something that can be proven conclusively. And we seem to have plenty of hypotheticals.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother,

My point has been made. Sorry if it was a bit vague.

We have two women in Genesis that veiled themselves. They are in the same time period. They married into the same family. One was considered to be a harlot. The other was Rebecca.

Notice though the difference in the reaction to these women wearing a veil. One has been suggested to have done so out of modesty and respect. The other was suggested to have done so as a disguise?

This is the challenge with trying to exegete this subject of the veil. Sincere people interpret it the way that they want to believe it. It is prime territory for conformational bias. Rebecca veiled out of modesty and respect. Tamar out of a need to remain anonymous.

I have my own idea. Maybe I’ll get into it. Probably not. Because I don’t see it being something that can be proven conclusively. And we seem to have plenty of hypotheticals.

Actually there isn't a problem with "trying to exegete this subject of the veil". Paul taught women ought to be covered, and men uncovered, when praying or prophesying. Simple.

The rest is just people's attempts to not do what the apostle said to do. Interestingly, nobody had a problem with this until around the 20th century.