Tithers Only

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The early church spread like wildfire as the gospel was shared heart to heart, testimony by testimony, with the Holy Ghost leading and guiding.

Here's what they NEEDED:

1) The Holy Ghost
2) their testimony
3) The Word (oooh. it was the OT! Is that okay? )
4) water for baptism
5) shoes
6) a basic garment
7) a bite to eat now and then

If anyone thinks this all happened without the need of money then I think they are mistaken.

When Paul traveled to another city...someone had to put him up and feed him. If he stayed long enough he could have gotten a job, They collected money to help other churches in need. If they were traveling they might have had to book passage on a ship or a caravan. Paul speaks of his parchments. Someone had to pay for that.

Who ever's house was the church had to pay for oil for the lamps that burned late into the night.

However, things were also different there than here. Not every American city has most of the citizens congregating in the local market place so you can preach to them. They are in their cars speeding off to work or some other place. What we reach to them, the word, has not changed, but HOW we reach to them that word has had to take a paradigm shift. Even door knocking does not reach many people. Here we can knock on 100 doors and get less than 50% open up the door...if they are even home.

Having house church in some cities too can be a legal nightmare of applying for permits and other zoning issues.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Sorry Elder...that's wrong....it's ALL the Lords money.

That sounds sanctimonious enough, to be sure.

But the message was clear; "to steal the tithe is to steal the Lord's money." The lesson sunk in quite clearly.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If anyone thinks this all happened without the need of money then I think they are mistaken.

Absolutely. The suggestions haven't been that there was then no need for money. The discussion has been that vastly larger amounts would be freed up for ministry to people etc.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

When Paul traveled to another city...someone had to put him up and feed him. If he stayed long enough he could have gotten a job, They collected money to help other churches in need. If they were traveling they might have had to book passage on a ship or a caravan. Paul speaks of his parchments. Someone had to pay for that.

Again... absolutely. These very real needs of ministry would be areas that the church would have much more ability to be able to reach out and minister to financially because there wasn't a large monthly overhead.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Who ever's house was the church had to pay for oil for the lamps that burned late into the night.

Well... other than one night when Paul spoke until someone fell out of the window we have no idea how long the services went. But any extra cost of oil would only be incurred after the time that the family would normally have retired to bed. This would be nominal in the face of the cost of maintaining a new building AND then having to buy NEW oil separate from what they purchase for their homes for each and every moment of the meeting.

As has repeatedly been agreed to... there were costs... but they were nominal against todays model and left much resources free to minister in other areas of need... mostly areas that ministered to people.

As has been mentioned... there is definitely no claim being made that this is "free" church. The discussion has been about the amount of money that would be freed up to minister in other areas and the comparative efficiency of the model.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

However, things were also different there than here. Not every American city has most of the citizens congregating in the local market place so you can preach to them. They are in their cars speeding off to work or some other place. What we reach to them, the word, has not changed, but HOW we reach to them that word has had to take a paradigm shift. Even door knocking does not reach many people. Here we can knock on 100 doors and get less than 50% open up the door...if they are even home.

Each of these things are outreach areas outside the home church and the problems faced and the paradigm shifts needed would have to be dealt with by house church and site built churches alike. These are all things that any given church would do to reach people and are not unique to house churches. House churches take place...in a house. The early church broke bread daily from house to house. The various house churches do then get together from time to time for a celebration service where the many small congregations come together for corporate worship.

The majority of growth that happens in a house church is that of word of mouth. There is also the added continual burst of excitement each time a house church multiplies. A new church or any church with new members tends to experience a growth spurt because of the excitement of the new member or the new small congregation. A house church will often run until they get 20+ members and then someone who has demonstrated a good understanding of the word, good leadership abilities & a stable lifestyle will be asked to take a portion of the members and start a work in their home. Then when those 2 works reach 20+ then they both will multiply again.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Having house church in some cities too can be a legal nightmare of applying for permits and other zoning issues.

There should be no zoning issues or permit issues in a true house church. There are no permitting or zoning issues with cell churches that larger churches start.

A true house church is a group of 2-20 people meeting on a regular basis to study the word. There should generally be no one taking a salary. There should be no need to "name" the church or put up signs.

It is simply "the church" meeting in a home. The home is not the church. The people are.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Each of these things are outreach areas outside the home church and the problems faced and the paradigm shifts needed would have to be dealt with by house church and site built churches alike. These are all things that any given church would do to reach people and are not unique to house churches. House churches take place...in a house. The early church broke bread daily from house to house. The various house churches do then get together from time to time for a celebration service where the many small congregations come together for corporate worship.

The majority of growth that happens in a house church is that of word of mouth. There is also the added continual burst of excitement each time a house church multiplies. A new church or any church with new members tends to experience a growth spurt because of the excitement of the new member or the new small congregation. A house church will often run until they get 20+ members and then someone who has demonstrated a good understanding of the word, good leadership abilities & a stable lifestyle will be asked to take a portion of the members and start a work in their home. Then when those 2 works reach 20+ then they both will multiply again.



There should be no zoning issues or permit issues in a true house church. There are no permitting or zoning issues with cell churches that larger churches start.

A true house church is a group of 2-20 people meeting on a regular basis to study the word. There should generally be no one taking a salary. There should be no need to "name" the church or put up signs.

It is simply "the church" meeting in a home. The home is not the church. The people are.

Would that be similar to Home Fellowship Groups meeting in homes? We have the Home Fellowship Group meetings in addition to church services.

You are correct - the "homemeetings" did work in the early church, however, I believe the babyboomer generation and the generations that follow would be skeptical about just meeting in homes and not have a "church building" with a Pastor that offers wide varieties of ministries to them, their children & grandchildren. I believe the ministries (divorce recovery, single parenting, children' s ministry & youth ministries and many others) that would be offered to them would be worth the tenth of tithes and other offerings they would give.

Because of cults, IMO, people would be reluctant to just meet in homes and not have a "church building" to congregate as a "family". They want more accountability in their lives.

Has anyone done any research as to finding out if the gospel is spreading like "wildfire" today like it done in the old days?

I would be curious to find out if all that we are doing is a waste of money and time.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Would that be similar to Home Fellowship Groups meeting in homes? We have the Home Fellowship Group meetings in addition to church services.

Similar in some ways... but the cell group that is a work of the larger modern church paradigm is still an outgrowth of that church with an end goal that those who are a part of the cell group will also become part of the modern model as well.

Originally Posted by Sissy

You are correct - the "homemeetings" did work in the early church, however, I believe the babyboomer generation and the generations that follow would be skeptical about just meeting in homes and not have a "church building" with a Pastor that offers wide varieties of ministries to them, their children & grandchildren. I believe the ministries (divorce recovery, single parenting, children' s ministry & youth ministries and many others) that would be offered to them would be worth the tenth of tithes and other offerings they would give.

Because of cults, IMO, people would be reluctant to just meet in homes and not have a "church building" to congregate as a "family". They want more accountability in their lives.

I tend to disagree that the house church is a hard sell or that people shy away from it. I have not yet even begun my house church yet and I am getting calls from people wanting to know when it will begin.

Why do we think that the modern church model has embraced the cell group? Because the house church concept is catching on and people are liking it. Now... please don't take any of my praises for the house church model as a desire to see the other model go away any time soon. There definitely are those who will not be comfortable at a house church (these are usually those who have grown up in the modern church model environment and feel that "this is what church is"). So... we should be all things to all people. If the modern church model ever dies out then let it be because it simply became irrelevant on its own... not because house church people made any attempt to do so.

Also there is no shortage of accountability in a house church. As a matter of fact... with a group of 20 people or less the amount of accountability would tend to be higher.

Has anyone done any research as to finding out if the gospel is spreading like "wildfire" today like it done in the old days?

I would be curious to find out if all that we are doing is a waste of money and time.

That is the beauty of house churches. House churches can take over a nation before they are even discernible.

Here are several articles out there on house churches and their popularity today. Those who attend the modern church model and do not put any time doing some good research into the effectiveness of house churches are generally surprised at how big the movement already is and the wide range of people that are already being reached.

1 of 5 adults attends a house church

The Barna Group report on house churches

House Church Stats on Wiki

And there are many more.

The model just plain out works.

The only question is... are apostolics going to use it or are they going to let this powerful & effective machine be used by others?

Thanks for the articles - I will read them! I know we have been working with a couple for about 4 years (they are about 60 years old). The only time they come to church is when there is a special service of some sort. We started the Home Fellowship Group this year and they love it. Matter of fact, once they started coming they have never missed. My husband wanted to start the home meetings about 3 years ago but had to wait for his father's approval. (my husband has been pastoring for 13 years - but his dad is the "Bishop" - get my drift?) Anyway, I'll read the articles you provided and probably will get back to you.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Thanks for the articles - I will read them! I know we have been working with a couple for about 4 years (they are about 60 years old). The only time they come to church is when there is a special service of some sort. We started the Home Fellowship Group this year and they love it. Matter of fact, once they started coming they have never missed. My husband wanted to start the home meetings about 3 years ago but had to wait for his father's approval. (my husband has been pastoring for 13 years - but his dad is the "Bishop" - get my drift?) Anyway, I'll read the articles you provided and probably will get back to you.

Sounds good... looking forward to it.

I used to tithe.

Giving is not the issue.
The issue when "we" violated the "Rod of Aaron"
Rod is represent authority.
What God chosen cannot be defiled by anyone even today's generation.
According to the book of Numbers 16:40, and read all the chapters.

According to the word of God....

No stranger
not seed of Aaron
or not be as Korah

Rod-Tithe/Authority.

You don't want put your rod in the Ark of the Covenant..this is a big violation to God.

The Levitical Priest are the only one who has the authorization to recieve tithes. Simply because they are chosen by God. This is why Korah and 250 companies , and 14,700 families died on that day. Because they want to rule the rod that is not been chosen by God.

Again, giving is not the issue...the issue when we violated the law that is already been established by God. This type of law cannot be changes or add according to the book of Revelation.

The antichrist will be defiled this "Taberncle" as a Levitical Priest. Shewing himself in a temple. This is why this "Tabernacle" of God already sealed it for only those 144,000 children of Israel. Because each tribes has a one rod.

But only one chosen rod. That is the rod of Aaron.

This is why Jesus came out of the lineage of Judah.
Why not Lineage of Levi?
God has to fulfilled the law that has given to the Levi's.

Jesus took the order of Melchisedek NOT order of Aaron. Why?
Because God Himself given this rod to Aaron. God will not defiled the rod has given to them.

New testament rod is the name of Jesus! This is why we speak the name of Jesus every spirits that is not belong to God.

Same Rod of Aaron that God given them authority to all their enemies.