Autism or possession

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have been in churches where the music and going on in the congregation was more closer to Voodoo than Apostolic Pentecostal. People who were supposedly filled with the Holy Ghost were more like filled with Legion.

I really need to get out more.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Didn't Jesus say that those who are healthy don't need a doctor, but those who are badly ill? Also the prophet was instructed to make a poultice, Isaiah 38:21, 2 Kings 20:7. In Colossians 4:14 we are introduced to Luke the beloved doctor. But also in Matthew 9:29 "According to your faith be it unto you." Therefore those who are strong in faith, would receive. It looks like from what I'm reading in your posts, is that you tell people; "The thing about Tylenol "ibuprofen" for headaches, you can take one if you want to, but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord?" You see, the word "miracle" actually is defined as a highly improbable or extraordinary event. So, instead of praying for a acid reflux, the Apostle tells the evangelist to drink a little wine for his illness 1 Timothy 5:23. So, if people in your church family want to take aspirin or magnesium for a headache, you wouldn't be ok with that? What do you think about Midol (Acetaminophen)?

People in the church can do what they feel they need too. I encourage prayer first.

You see what the missionary saw in that country was something that was small turn into something that was bigger. Meaning, people that took the medicine for their headache felt the relief, well through that experience they began seeking their need through the medical field. From there the miracles they've seen ceased, and it started with Americans sending medicine for pain relief. So, you tell me why?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

According to the Bible, demonisation seems to manifest in one of several specific ways:

1. The stereotypical foaming at the mouth psychosis (man in the tombs).

2. Divination (pythoness soothsayer in Acts).

3. Apparently religiously correct behaviour (man in the synagogue - it seems he was completely undercover).

4. Saul's case which is complex and may not indicate demonisation but rather being afflicted or harassed by a change of temperament or mood.

5. Long standing infirmity or physical impairment that presents no different symptoms from a similar purely physical infirmity or impairment (woman in Luke 13, deaf mute in Mark 9, etc).

6. Idolatry (heathen gods are demons and so pagan religion is literal demon worship, a form of the lowest stupidity).

In no case in Scripture is there ANY treatment protocol EXCEPT rebuking and casting the evil spirit out. No "taking an inventory of unrepented sins", no probing into the victim's "troubled childhood", no months-long "progress through multiple deliverance sessions", or anything remotely resembling what is usually presented nowadays. Today's methods honestly sound more like charismaniac pop psychology rather than apostolic power. Or standard witchdoctor exorcism practices, to be honest.

Meanwhile, so many people going on about the demonic yet they have no problem celebrating the rites of ancient demon worship as long as it's done "for Jesus", nor do they seem aware or even care that false religion which masquerades as God's religion but which contradicts the Word of God is literally "of the devil" according to Jesus.

Mark 9:20-22
20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

Why would it matter how long this spirit has been with this afflicted son? Why would Jesus asked this question?

Matthew 12:24
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Brother, Jesus was even accused of using witchcraft with the authority he had. Nothing new is under the sun.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Jito463

If we see someone born with a lame leg or arm, should we consider them someone not to be healed, but only to be loved? Or do we show love by praying for a healing?

Apples and oranges, brother.

Have you considered the possibility that autism isn't a condition that needs to be "healed", but is just one of the many ways of being human?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We should not just leave people alone to work out things for themselves. I do pray against all sorts of addiction, but I will still pray about people's spiritual and physical needs in the body. You are correct that predatory sexual behavior is not a symptom of autism, but for some reason many autistic deal with hyper sexuality. When I read that there are sinful patterns associated with having autism, it at least makes want to stop and seek God for them. I am sure every case is not the same, but my initial post was not meant to be derogatory against someone’s handicap. If we are apostolic we should beleive that God is a
Healer and Deliverer. So if autism is only a physical problem then He can also heal our physical body, but I am not gonna just leave them alone.

Brother, you cannot seem to make up your mind.

First, you wonder in the opening post if autism might in many cases be the result of demonization. When asked why you wonder if that is so, you avoid the question and give only a tangentially related reply. When challenged on your tangentially related reply, you answer again, but the answer you give doesn't have anything to do with autism, but the normative sinful behaviors of humans everywhere. So again, you were challenged on what that has to do with anything regarding autism. You then attempted to be more specific and mentioned predatory sexual behavior. It was then shown to you that predatory sexual behavior is not an indication of autism, but rather is an indication of common to all people works of the flesh.

And now, you are here admitting in the above post, in the emboldened text, that predatory sexual behavior is not an indication of autism, thus defeating yourself and nullifying the very thing that made you first wonder if demonization is the cause of many cases of autism.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We should not just leave people alone to work out things for themselves. I do pray against all sorts of addiction, but I will still pray about people's spiritual and physical needs in the body. You are correct that predatory sexual behavior is not a symptom of autism, but for some reason many autistic deal with hyper sexuality. When I read that there are sinful patterns associated with having autism, it at least makes want to stop and seek God for them. I am sure every case is not the same, but my initial post was not meant to be derogatory against someone’s handicap. If we are apostolic we should beleive that God is a
Healer and Deliverer. So if autism is only a physical problem then He can also heal our physical body, but I am not gonna just leave them alone.

And as far as hypersexuality in autistics, I ask you to compare that to everyone else in the world.

And I ask you to define hypersexuality.

And then show how someone with autism who is hypersexualized according to your definition is in some meaningful way different from a non-autistic who is hypersexualized.

And finally, prove how anyone's hypersexualization is the result of their autism, or even of a demon for that matter, and not merely the result of the law of sin and the carnal mind of the flesh.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We should not just leave people alone to work out things for themselves. I do pray against all sorts of addiction, but I will still pray about people's spiritual and physical needs in the body. You are correct that predatory sexual behavior is not a symptom of autism, but for some reason many autistic deal with hyper sexuality. When I read that there are sinful patterns associated with having autism, it at least makes want to stop and seek God for them. I am sure every case is not the same, but my initial post was not meant to be derogatory against someone’s handicap. If we are apostolic we should beleive that God is a
Healer and Deliverer. So if autism is only a physical problem then He can also heal our physical body, but I am not gonna just leave them alone.

Finally, I appreciate that you are trying to be conciliatory with you words and express a sentiment that indicates you are not trying to be derogatory, at least intentionally.

But I would have you to know that calling people with disabilities or disorders "handicap" is in itself highly derogatory, since the word is associated with the poor beggar on the street, cap in hand, hoping for a hand-out, because he's too unable to do anything meaningful with his life but wait on the charity of others.

As such, in 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act officially ended the use of the term.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We should not just leave people alone to work out things for themselves. I do pray against all sorts of addiction, but I will still pray about people's spiritual and physical needs in the body. You are correct that predatory sexual behavior is not a symptom of autism, but for some reason many autistic deal with hyper sexuality. When I read that there are sinful patterns associated with having autism, it at least makes want to stop and seek God for them. I am sure every case is not the same, but my initial post was not meant to be derogatory against someone’s handicap. If we are apostolic we should beleive that God is a
Healer and Deliverer. So if autism is only a physical problem then He can also heal our physical body, but I am not gonna just leave them alone.

If you have opportunity to evangelize someone with autism, by all means, preach the Gospel to every creature.

But in terms of their autism, if you come at them with "God can heal and deliver you of your autism", the likelihood that they will hear anything you have to say after that is about zero.

You are making, to them, an a priori de facto claim of dysfunction and disease that came about in some fashion other than God made them that way. Treating someone with a disability or a disorder to defunct and broken and in need of fixing is a sure-fire way to get yourself on the pay-no-mind list, by those who have a disability or a disorder.

And you can call it pride or stubbornness or whatever you want, but the fault will be with you.

People with disabilities or disorders need the love and mercy of God to save their souls. They are sinners like the rest of us and the blood of Jesus is the only thing they need to be made whole. Leave their disabilities and disorders to them and God.

Now, if someone with a disability or disorder comes to you and asks for the elders to anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord and lay hands on them so that they might recover and be healed, then by all means, all power to you.

But short of that, especially in the case of autism, maybe you should try taking my advice and leave them alone, when it comes to their autism.

Now, you could try understanding and listening and kindness and patience and acceptance and tolerance, but that doesn't seem to be on the table, as of yet.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I would advise you to be careful calling something a sham.

I need not be careful in this case. There is no Scriptural language for any of the claims made, that I referenced, above.

As such, since it cannot be shown through the Scriptures, it is not of God, and can then be addressed and treated as such.

Not every "condition" is because of a chemical imbalance, or a nutrient deficiency. Also, not every demonic possessed man/women is going to act like a revenging maniac. Just because the medical world put a name on it, doesn't mean its genuine? Lots of believers say they believe in the spiritual world, yet I believe they say that so they're not criticized. Lots of pentecostals of depression pills, lots of pentecostals kids on ADHD meds.... poor souls, just born with a chemical imbalance?!? The time will come when we're going to be tested if we really believe what we preach or type.

What has this to do with anything?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother can you please explain to the rest of us, what causes Autism?

Same thing that causes consciousness and personality: neurons.

Now, can you tell me, what causes demonization, according to the Holy Scriptures, chapter and verse?