Drawing Lines: Where Do Yours Begin?

Here's another one... My wife's father was a Pastor for years until arthritis pretty much left him in a wheelchair and immobile. Not sure where she got it but, to this day, she won't even TOUCH a deck of playing cards.

As far as I know it wasn't an issue with her Dad (had 5 daughters and they never played cards but was never preached against) but my precious wife wants NOTHING to do with them. The Church I came into had no problem with playing card games and the FIRST big 'disagreement' we ever had as a married couple is when we went to visit the family of my deceased Mother (she died when I was 11) we ended up sitting around playing some card game.

She walked around the corner and saw me and burst into tears and stomped into the bedroom we were staying in. When I ran to see what was wrong she blurted out, "If I knew you were going to backslide I would have never married you!"

I was shocked, embarrassed in front of my family and - now - angry. We came to an agreement, however... she don't complain if I play (which is maybe once in the last 5 years) and I don't make her bother them.

P.S.: The maddest I think I ever saw her was when one of my sons, in an attempt to pick on her, put a deck of cards in her purse. She saw them moments later and... well... it was bad. Just for the record, I admonished him to NEVER do it again as it bordered on violating her conviction. He agreed and apologized.

I have a conviction not to judge/condemn others to hell. God will be their judge and I let people make thier own decisions.

The two girls and one woman in my house all have long hair, (this is not good for our vaccuum machine but we make due).

We have a conviction to give to the needy and we do it in a way which does not receive recognition by other people. My wife and I make it a habit to not even tell each-other.

I have a conviction to continue learning every day of my life. I have a conviction for higher education, (my wife doesn’t) haha.

More recently, I have a conviction to take care of the temple of the Holy Ghost. I have been walking 3 miles, 4-5 times a week.

[mfblume]

Outward appearance lines?

I believe hair on women should be long, not uncut, though, because scripture makes no sense if it is speaking about uncut hair being long hair. Such an idea would allow men to wear hair down their backs as long as they trim it every so often. lol

Men shoudl appear as men -- masculine -- and women as women -- feminine.

I believe ANYTHING is good for a woman to wear as long as it is modest and feminine. This is not restricted to dresses and skirts.

Beards and moustaches are not spoken against in the bible, but actually encouraged... 2 Sam 10:4-5. Hence, I wear a beard. It's more "manly" anyway.

Clothing was NEVER said to be what tells the world we are Christians. Love for one another is to accomplish that.

But the points of emphasis I make in my life are regard for and seeking after FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, spiritual maturity, and manifesting Christ through my life into the world.

Also, ya don't need a shirt with a tie to preach!

As far as putting things on the bible, I see no problem with that. Personally, and this is not to preach to anyone else but is MY conviction, I think it would be idolatrous for me to be worried over that -- again, that is for ME and no reflection on anyone else. The bible is not anything physically holy. The MESSAGE is holy and invaluable. I cannot treat paper and ink and leather as an object I must revere in and of itself. FOR ME, I would consider me having WEAK faith, according to 1 Cor 14. There, Paul spoke of things, such a physical meat offered to idols, as elements which concern weaker saints when it is only food. I take the physical bible as only paper and ink and leather. But that has no bearing on my feelings about the extreme value and holiness of the MESSAGE!

A person's spirit is foremost important.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Modesty is important,but displaying the right spirit is important as well.

[Joseph Miller]

BUMP

It would be ashamed for this thread to die. Lets keep it going.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Well, folks, let's be honest here.

Everyone worth their salt should have convictions.

Gut convictions.
Deep rooted, heartfelt convictions.
Never fading, soul captivating convictions.

I don't mind telling you that, in my opinion, if you don't have some real convictions you probably don't have a real relationship with God. The difference in most of us is where we draw the line when it comes to fellowshipping around our convictions.

For instance, your convictions may be much more 'relaxed' than mine. Obviously, some of my convictions surely pertain to modesty of dress while other's don't put so much emphasis on spiritual disciplines pertaining to clothing.

If you are right with God you have, somewhere in your world, some serious beliefs upon which you build your spiritual disciplines. Again, the question is where do you draw the line and say, "I like you but that's a bit much for my spiritual comfort."

Among the spiritual disciplines in my life are things that would be insignificant to most but others would be critical to most as well:
EXAMPLE... I simply cannot bring myself to put anything on top of my Bible. It bothers me. It haunts me to think that I would disrespect the Word of God by chucking it into the back seat of my car and piling groceries on it! Hey, I won't even put a piece of paper on my Bible... strange to you? A conviction to me.

I wouldn't disfellowship anybody over it. I strongly teach my young ministers to respect it to the point that if I see something on their Bible they 'know' my displeasure.

HOWEVER... I simply could not, for any reason, put false doctrine in my pulpit to preach and don't think I could have any real fellowship with an Apostolic Church that thought the New Birth Doctrine so insignificant that putting a damnable doctrine in their pulpit was okay.

GET MY POINT?
Both of them are convictions to me;
Lines of fellowship, however, are drawn differently by various people.

Let's do something 'different' on AFF for a little while. Let's talk 'convictions' and where YOU draw the line of 'fellowship'. I'm NOT talking about 'hating' your brother or 'resenting' another Church or belief. I'm talking about a "I love you, Brother, but that is a very important issue to me that I can't 'overlook' in my pursuit of fellowship."

What conviction do you have that would be hard for you to fellowship 'around'? Where do you draw your lines.

Not looking for a 'standards' thread here... looking for a 'I'm close enough to God that my personal convictions can't be ignored on this issue.

Who is brave enough to admit to a conviction that strong?

I respect and honor those with convictions or preferences different than my own, but I would like to point out a couple of things.

We toss the word conviction around in our circles and it eventually loses it meaning or is misapplied. In many cases it’s either a preference, tradition or an expression of our feeble attempt to work out Faith.

The danger is using it or following it missing the original principle or application.

For example Jesus was rebuked for his disciples not washing their hands before eating (now after going to Asia a few times I know the reason), picking corn on the Sabbath (Sabbath rest was for man, not Man for the Sabbath).

Now I imagine the original intent of those that instituted those traditions was good, but they were passed down to following generations and became not just a preference or expression of Faith but actually a means of measuring one’s relationship with God.

I once heard a radio interview with a Hasidic Jew, the interviewer was asking about the various religious rules that they live under, he jokingly said to the Hasidic follower I bet you even have a rule for tying or putting on your shoes. Expecting to hear that there was no rule, the Hasidic Man said yes we have a rule or method to tie and put shoes on as well. Then he remarked that he couldn’t remember or know the reasons why, but was sure that there was a good principle behind it.

I think some things in Pentecost started right and were a outworking of genuine faith towards God and were needful and sincere outworking of that faith within the life of the believer, but lose their original intent or become simply traditions that are passed on to future generations and become a measuring stick of their walk with God.

So we must not seek to override genuine Bible based convictions with the traditions of the elders.

In my own life/ministry where the Bible speaks clearly about, I have that as a conviction, where the Bible is silent, I remain silent and without conviction. I might have an opinion but to use Steadfast’s wording I don’t draw a line or refuse fellowship with those that differ.

[Cindy]

My line is drawn when anyone is disrespectful about, or gossips about preachers and/or pastors. If they have a problem they don't have to tell anyone or everyone about it. Tell it to God, I don't wanna know. Some want to tell everyone and their dog about this or that preacher and how wrong they are. Pray about it, don't be spreading the spirit of gossip. It just makes me angry.

Originally Posted by cneasttx

My line is drawn when anyone is disrespectful about, or gossips about preachers and/or pastors. If they have a problem they don't have to tell anyone or everyone about it. Tell it to God, I don't wanna know. Some want to tell everyone and their dog about this or that preacher and how wrong they are. Pray about it, don't be spreading the spirit of gossip. It just makes me angry.

Wow. We Pastors LOVE people like you!

[Sister Alvear]

I have the same problem it gets to me when pastors talk about other pastors...